Pete is the superior

["Mark R. Leaman" <mleaman@sccoast.net>]

McGoo:

> This means little, as it is true of many people.  Hitler failed in his
attempt to
> create a master race, but I wouldn't call him an artist.

No, this means everything. I say again (and in more detail): as an artist,
Pete Townshend's failures were more successful at achieving their aim than
most people's successes. Hitler was too damned successful at his goal,
unfortunately.

> Only one way to respond to this one:  I think that's a shame, because
obviously
> you've missed the best part.  But keep reading and perhaps you'll get it.

I DO admit Dickinson is an artist, but say that Townshend's art speaks to
me a lot more than hers. Your answer doesn't apply, sorry. Mine did apply
to you, however, since your claim is that you see no Art in Townshend's
work...and it IS there! I KNOW it!

> Conclusion:  Ms. Dickinson's poetry, while it may not "touch" you in the
same way
> as Townshend's, is better.

I'd say you missed a step or three. HOW is it better? You don't say.
Whereas I "prove" my claim by saying his work touches ME.

> I have spent far too long analizing Townshend's songs
> and he does not have any of the symbolism or masterful metaphores of
Dickinson.

And if he did, he'd be imitating her and you'd have no respect for him blah
blah blah.
He works in a different way, but you have yet to show it in any way
inferior to Dickinson.

> His songs rarely mean anything other than what appears on the
> surface, where as Dickinson's often have several levels of meaning.

Well, here you're DEAD wrong but that's OK...keep listening and it will
come to you. I can tell you for a fact you've simply missed the depths.

> I think I have aptly demonstrated that Dickinson is a superior poet to
Townshend,

Not even a bit. I will grant that you've proven her a different poet.
The problem with your claim is Dickinson was a more limited artist than is
Townshend. For she worked ONLY with words, while Pete works with both words
and music to create his Art.
Uh, I guess that makes Townshend the superior artist!

> while Townshend did this to an extremely limited degree, he was far more
of a
> conformist than Whitman.

Not really. He was the first who strayed from the proven formula of Chuck
Berry/Blues structured Rock N Roll. Pretty damned innovative, if you ask
me. He invented Heavy Metal and the Punk mentality all in one stroke (or
should I say "strum"). He changed Rock music more than any other artist you
can name. Etc. etc. etc.

> Dickinson vs. Townshend technicalities apply in this case too (or:
Whitman too, is
> a better technical poet than Townshend).

But not a hundredth the musician, as far as I can tell.

> I must also continue the string of confessions by confessing that I do
not like
> Whitman, but I love Dickinson.

I don't see this as relevent at all. I'll admit Dylan was a far superior
lyricist compared to Townshend, while I like PT's stuff better.

> over the other.  On the other hand Townshend's poetry is identical, in
every way
> except subject matter, today compared to thirty-five years ago.  This is
not
> progress, to me this is not art.

Try comparing I Can't Explain to Pure And Easy and tell me again how he
didn't progres...

> While you seem disinterested in Dickinson, you may be interested in her
definition
> of poetry:  "If I read a book and it makes my body so cold no fire can
warm me, I
> know that is poetry.  If I feel physically as if the top of my head were
taken
> off, I know that is poetry.  These are the only ways I know it.  Is there
another
> way?"

How about if it makes one sick to one's stomach? What does that mean?
I'll just give you a small, inconsequential Townshend quote to finish you
off: "If I told you what it takes to reach the highest high, you'd laugh
and say 'Nothing's that simple!' But you've been told many times before,
Messiahs pointed to the door. No one had the guts to leave the temple."

Have the guts, McGoo!

> While your delineation of Dickinson and Townshend's work (ie: both write
> poetry) Pete did more than this.  He didn't just write trite song lyrics,
> he wrote songs, in addition to tremendous linear projects…like, Quad,
> Tommy, Lifehouse…White City, Iron Man…etc.

Greg:

(sigh) That's what happens when you get the digest. Someone beats you to
the punch. Oh well, I still stand on my argument.

> Amateur what….writer, poet, artist, philosopher, musician, songwriter,
> composer….?

I think we have to grant Pete is a professional all the way down the line.
If Whitman and Dickinson didn't get any money for their work, then I guess
THEY were the amatuers...

> No, I don't believe Pete is better than Emily

I still do, Pete...I'm with ya, pal...don't let the bastards get you
down...

---

 "You take the guns...I'll keep the women."
             what David Koresh should have said

                      Cheers                ML