Re: My Generation/Who vs Zep/Pagey

[Ian Derby <iderby19@us.net>]

> >Chord structure..."way it's played is different"  uh okay, as you say you
> >aren't the guitarist you want to be.  If you're a non-musician looking at
> >this song you're no better than a typical moron.  It's the SAME!!!!!!  The
> >phrasing may be slightly off, but it's the SAME on paper!!! 
> 
> Ian:
> 
> Just because I can't explain in musical terms doesn't mean I can't hear the
> difference between the styles. I can hear the obvious difference. Now,
> you're claiming that the song is based on a Blues chord structure. It
> doesn't sound like ANY of the Blues songs I've heard (and I've heard a few)
> at all. I think you're being too general here (as in Thaag and the rock).
> But it all boils down to this: MG is not a Blues song no matter what the
> chords are, it doesn't sound like any Blues song ever recorded, and no RnR
> song before it had broken the structural boundaries. That much cannot be denied.
> Oh, and I'm just the guitarist I want to be. I don't need to study theory to
> play what I want to play. I also don't need it to hear what I hear and grasp it.



> 
> >Why are you
> >arguing with me when I point out the REAL differences in WHY this is the
> >first true rock song???  Yet you, without the musical background is
> >challenging me on it's blues influence?  
> 
> Because you don't say enough by merely claiming the lyrics were "angry." So
> are the lyrics for AAA, which came first. Does that make it the first Rock
> song? That would blow YOUR story, wouldn't it?
> And I am hardly without musical background. I've been studying it for some
> 30 years. I haven't studied guitar playing, but that doesn't mean I have no
> musical background. And, Ian, I know what I hear. You're pissing in the wind
> here.

I didn't claim it's just the lyrics, but what was going on in the song as 
well (which you have never pointed out).  Put those together and you have 
the song, you're arguing something you can't win because you can't prove 
it. Knowing what you hear is like someone saying they heard four shots 
not three in Dallas.  All I'm saying is that if you strip the song 
naked, it's a song built on the blues.  Imagine no drums, no bass, the guitar 
is acoustic.   

> >The couple of times I've tried to
> >install the fact that My Gen contains the question/respond manner of the
> >blues you simply ignore (for your gain obviously) let alone the actual
> >makings of the song.  Mark, listen closely, I totally agree with you about
> >My Gen, but to say this isn't a product of the blues, as is any song of
> >it's day is simply stupid.  
> 
> "Call and response." You're nit-picking with that. That's an element of
> Blues, but when you PLAY My Generation as a Blues song you have to change
> the song. I notice you ignore that. Every song with C&R is NOT a Blues song,
> as I HOPE you know.
> You're just being too general, that's all. Next you'll be claiming that all
> guitar-based music is based on Blues. Here's what you're missing: this was
> the first one that went beyond that.


What??  The call and response is imbedded within the actual single of 
the song, altering is unecessary.   You're right, every song with 
this characteristic is not Blues, it could also be jazz or R+B, but still 
closely rooted in the blues.  However in this case it's pretty 
unmistakeable.  You've been trying to tell us for months how this song 
went beyond typical boundaries.  The truth is nothing can be more 
ironic.  Stop being so stubborn; I know this is the first rock song.