[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

BBE vs. STH/Popularity



ML and Wfang both wrote pointing out that popularity does not equal
greatness (in regrads to the Behind Blue Eyes vs. Stairway to Heaven
thread).

Absolutely it doesn't.  But what do you think does determine
greatness?  I have this same argument with friends an awful lot.
Obviously, it's not just every person giving their own opinion.
That's just a shouting match.  It's not just the sum of that either,
that's popularity.  It's a fair question to ask, since any discussions
on this list are going to be greatly biased towards the Who.  Which is
what prompted my first post, I thought that saying BBE was a greater
song than STH was possibly true, but saying morever that STH was
absolutely ridiculous and pathetic showed that the poster had blinders
on.

I think popularity is not the end-all and be-all of greatness, but
it's certainly a big factor.  50,000,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong and
all that.  Critical acclaim is also a big factor (something Michael
Jackson notably gets very little of).  I like using radioplay of a
song 10 or more years later as a good measuring stick.  If a song is
still being played on the radio 10 years later, it's got something.
If it's still attracting new fans 10 years later, it's got something.

Both BBE and STH get/got a lot of critical acclaim, are both pretty
darn popular, are both played on radio stations today, and
(presumably) continue to attract new fans to the Who and Led Zep.
However, on every single one of those, STH has beat out BBE.  You
might think BBE is better.  And it would be a fool who told you that
you were categorically wrong.  However, to then claim that STH is
ridiculous, and that Led Zep made fools of themselves... well, that's
just crazy.

ML wrote:
> Popularity does NOT equal greatness. If you are inclined to disagree, allow
> me to mention FRAMTON COMES ALIVE, which was the biggest selling album of
> its time. Sure, now people know it was mush. 

And nowadays it's played once in a while on the radio.  Not as much as
most Who stuff, but it's there.  Time gave a verdict on it, that it
was a good, not great or historic, album.

> I've never really thought about Stairway as being "one of the best Rock
> songs ever written." I like it, and it's certainly popular. But not one of
> the best. For Zep, that would be Immigrant Song or Kashmir. 

BTW, Jimmy Page thinks Kashmir was the best Zep song ever.  Plant
thinks Stairway.

> The Who never has, nor will they ever play "second fiddle" to Zep (or anyone
> else, for that matter). 

Fact is, they do.  Again, kind of hard to pin down exactly what
playing second fiddle means, yet...

Unless you will also claim that Zep plays second
> fiddle to Michael Jackson, who is more popular and has sold more albums and
> can make more on a tour. 

Not sure he's more popular, or that he's sold more albums total, or
could make more.  You might be right, but you'd have to prove that to
me.

Popularity means nothing in regard to performing
> "one of the best Rock songs ever written." One of the best Rock songs ever
> written is Respectable Street. Can you name the artist?

XTC?

Seriously, I've never heard it.  Again, sez who that it's one of the
best.  You?  The XTC list?  The Cultural Elite Establishment?  Jackie
Mason's guide to the best rock songs?

Same question, what criteria do you want to use.

(About that "gods" thing... It's a little pet theory I'm working on
that modern celebrities are effectively gods in the way most people
feel about them.  Haven't really worked it out yet, and since it's my
own personal meaning, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it yet.
Let's just say that these huge bands have become somehow mythic.)

----------------------------------------

Maybe it's stupid to continue to arguing BBE vs. STH, but I think it
is interesting to see how/why people think songs are better than
others.  

-- 
- Brad Goldman
 (Brad@jimmy.harvard.edu)