Re: Getting it all together

[mleaman@sccoast.net (Mark Leaman)]

>As for "what we want", can we really all
>agree on "what we want"? How about all the other Who fans in the world? Are
>our points of view representive of all Who fans? And more importantly, other
>than relatively few people who responded (there are over 300 on the list),
>are we in a position to say "what people (at least these) people want"??? You
>may want to consider putting a poll together, and first we'd have to agree on
>the questions before the poll can be taken. After all, the "universe" isn't
>available...

WF:

I posted my wish list of a five disk set for just that purpose: to get
suggestions going on what should be (and shouldn't be) included. I can't
force people to post their input.
I DID say "on this and other online services," as you may recall. That's the
easiest way to get an idea, and it seems that J&C are unwilling to do even that.

>>Of course, my imaginary letter (prepared merely for this list) is 50%
>>entertainment. The basis is there, however: "Make a definitive historic
>>collection of the band's music live. What's in it for you? Their entire
>>catalog will sell better, and longer. The band (known as the greatest live
>>band ever) will get more respect. The buying public will be happy. You will
>>make more money. Everybody wins; nobody loses." This is the business
>>perspective, and a damned accurate one. You don't agree?

>No, I don't. I agree on the emotional end and in principal, but if my money
>was on the line, I'd be a lot more cautious with my statements. Do we really
>know what kinda profits there are out there for a 5 CD box set, compared to a
>2 CD "double"? That's the first question that has to be answered. BTW, you
>may be interested to know, that "the producers" unanimously wanted "Leeds" to
>be 2 CDs. However, Pete and MCA shot it down. Guess who won???

My friend, if there were no profits from boxed sets, why do we see so many?
With some bands rushing to do more...how many does Tull have now? The
profits are there to be taken, given the right marketing (which has yet to
be done on the remixes). Have you SEEN some of the artists that have boxed
sets??? Ya gotta be kidding me on this one...
There are even "import" boxed sets that cost a LOT more. And they sell;
someone bought an 8 disk Zep set right out from under me...and it was $183.
That's what I get for hesitating an entire two days. Uh, if you happen to
run across Cabal...
As for MCA...there they go again.
As for Pete, I can't imagine why that might be. I'll bet he could have been
convinced. Did anyone even try?

>In this scenario for "Leeds", you would have been fired
>for insisting on the 2CD of the same and there would be no "improved" version
>at all. Who wins? Your ego and Pete's. Who loses, everyone else. I think you
>just proved your point... Given the players involved, I'll stick with them
>for my money and do my best to keep them "informed"...

That's your scenario. For me it isn't an ego thing, but a matter of doing
what's right. I DO think I could make a strong argument for that with Pete.
I am also willing to "bend"...as in releasing LEEDS as two separate CDs, as
is now being considered (and I suggested to Charlesworth even before the
first was released...I must be on to SOMETHING...).

>>I stand by my statement that Jon and Chris should be aware of what the
>>people want
>
>Again, you'll have to define that given all the paremeters and limitations
>that go with the job. And, ALWAYS keep in mind that you MUST work with other
>people and their VERY strong egos...
 
I understand that. The paremeters of this of this particular job should
include finding out what would be welcome and what wouldn't. As for letting
egos get into the way of the project...how sad. Have they ever had to deal
with anyone in a grown-up world before?

>BTW, were you able to read the GIF?
>
Haven't had the chance to try it yet, but I got it. Thanks!

>>Yes, I'd put up the money for a 5 disk set in a heartbeat. I'm absolutely
>>convinced it would sell (and sell well)

>I'm glad you feel that way. However, let's talk $$$ & cents... I can
>certainly speak for myself and say I would buy any recorded Who/Who solo
>product that moment it came out. However, in your scenario, you're making an
>awful big assumption.
>Case in point: Not everyone on this list owns the current box set, "30 Years
>Maximum R&B". Do you have any statistics as to how it sold and the profit
>margins (if any) there were associated with it? 2nd point: $$$. A 5 CD live
>set would cost about $75.

The Petty 6 disk set was $79, so we could revise that figure down a bit. As
for who doesn't have the boxed set yet, do you feel that stat would hold
true if the boxed set would have contained nothing but unreleased material?
Yes, I think that would change the picture a bit. I know that I'm not going
to be rushing to get the new TOMMY and QUADROPHENIA, as I've already bought
both the standard and the gold versions. However, if it was live
versions...need I say more?

>Another case in point (big guns out now), the recent offering for the JAE
>Sponsorship. For a reasonable price, you were offered more value (do some
>research as to what John's autograph alone is worth) than you had to pay, for
>a limited edition CD (only 5,000 copies world-wide) and a great tourbook,
>which is a LOT more than just a "tourbook". I don't mean to embarrass you,
>but how come your name wasn't on the list??? It's very easy to shout
>"marketing", "game plans", "I know better", etc, but don't spend someone
>else's $75. 

Reasons:
1) I'm not going to be able to get to NY this Winter, so I wouldn't have
been able to attend the party etc. As you know, I'm saving every penny for
the used CD store I hope to open in March or April. However, investing in
the boxed set could easily be a better investment...
2) Entwistle, as a musician, is second to none. As a performer, I'm not
nearly as excited. If he plays here, I'll see him. Hopefully, it will be a
finale for the WhoFest. I may yet end up with his autograph. The limited
addition CD sounds great, but on the other hand it could be another MAD DOG.
I'm not embarrassed by this, but of course would rather not have said it. I
have a lot of respect for Entwistle, and do not seek to discredit him. Keep
in mind that I also didn't go to either the Daltrey tour or the TOMMY play.
For my own reasons, some of which have to do with the purity of The Who and
their music.

>If you want to "take action", I suggest you do. Debating with me is really a
>waste of your time. Do YOU want to make a difference? Put your money where
>your mouth is: 
>Start picking up the phone and making long distant calls to Andy MacKaie (I
>never spell his name right, sorry!) at MCA (I suggest an introductory letter
>first).

Not a complete waste of time, I hope. Wouldn't you say that awareness of the
situation is a bit higher now?
OK, EMail me some addresses to start off.

>Now, tell me what steps YOU are going to take to "make a difference"? I've
>been through the whole route, spent a LOT of money (which I'm certainly not
>complaining about--but I'm warning you in advance what to expect) and made
>some "headway". Being a fan with an opinion is easy. Being a fan who wants to
>"make a difference" isn't. 

What I will do:
1) Write the interested parties with the suggestion that this and other
online services are monitored to help determine what is desired and marketable.
2) Point out some of the things I personally think would strengthen the
project, and make it clear that they are IMHO.
3) Bring more fans into the game. Don't you think it best that we ALL
solicit what we are interested in concerning this project? In which case you
might post the addresses. A small letter-writing campaign...as I've done in
the past (and you know it).
I am certainly a "fan" who wants to make a difference. Hopefully, there will
be others here that share that ideal. 
The thing is that I keep getting the feeling that this is the last chance.

 Cheers                               ML