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Re: The Who Vs The Rest




>Well, I must say that the psychedelic content of LZ III is pretty clear to
>me. The "Immigrant's Song/Friends/Celebration Day" set, for instance. Hats
>Off and Tangerine, too. Without going into a long discussion defining Acid
>Rock, I think that the evidence is there to be seen.
>BTW, I never listened to Fairport Convention in that state of mind. Oof!
>TOMMY, now...
>LZ III (my favorite LZ album, BTW) has few folk songs, really. It has been
>unjustly called an "acoustic" album for years. 

When you compare it do LZ II, maybe the the proper team is "toned down".  
Since LZ II is mainly over the top, songs like OOTT (one of my fav Zep 
songs) just don't stand out on III.  The main songs that stick out in my 
mind are. That's the Way and Bron Yr Aur Stomp.  Anyway this is getting of 
the subject of what the original point was so let's move on.



>But you will admit, I think, the relationships between Friends and Four
>Sticks, Celebration Day and The Song Remains The Same, Tangerine and Over
>The Hills And Far Away, SIBLY and I'm Gonna Crawl (OK, that was a cheap
>one), Out On The Tiles and Custard Pie.
>

I all of your connections are stretches.  Friends and Four Sticks, how?  
Tangerine picks up the pace but it isn't drastically altered like Over the 
Hills...(BTW I always blame OTH as one of those late 80's metal cliches:  
start the song out on an acoutic guitar and forget the original intent with 
a ruined overblown bridge....uh oh I'm One could have done the same!!)



>>Relax is excellent from that show and should've been how it sounded on
> Sell 
>>Out, but again where is the influence on Zeppelin?  If anything Relax is
> a 
>>Hendrix imitation with a flamboyant drummer.  Throw out the feedback and 
>>Pete actually tries to attain that Hendrix style of guitar soloing.  
>
>Pete had been doing that feedback-style lead long before Hendrix. Anyway
>Anyhow Anywhere from `65!!! And I see Relax as a very Zeppelin-sounding
>song, pre-Zeppelin (of course). Even the studio version. Another fine
>example would be The Ox. Shades of Whole Lotta Love! And if you have the
> new
>SELL OUT, listen to Top Gear or Hall Of The Mountain King.
>

I know Pete was doing his feedbacks long before Jimi.  I was trying to 
point out the phrasing of his actual solo, which reminds me of Hendrix and 
something he WASN'T doing previously.


You know I'm going to go back to tripping to see this alternative thought.  
I knew listening to Janis Joplin wouldn't get me anymore.


>>If you really want to point out where exactly the Who are clearly heard
> on 
>>LZ II (because I want to be proven wrong)  show me.  An album that's
> laced 
>>with guitar riffs, many lifted from blues musicians over an album of
> power 
>>chords and strong rhythm doesn't not say WHO to me.  The ONLY clear 
>>influence I can think of is their use of dynamics on Thank You.  
>
>Songs that reflect The Who on Zep II: Whole Lotta Love (especially the 
end:
>"Way down inside/Woman you need..."), the electric parts of What Is And
> What
>Should Never Be ("And the wind won't blow...") & Bring It On Home, and
>Heartbreaker (not the lead break, of course). The chorus and end of Ramble
>On ("Now's the time/The time is now..."). I never said (nor implied) that
> it
>was note for note...it's not. But there is a strong resemblance.
>This is not an isolated event, either. The Lemon Song on the same album 
was
>lifted almost intact from Killing Floor without crediting Chester Burnett
>(better known as Howling Wolf), the original writer.
>

Sorry I just don't hear it, as someone else brought this before me and I 
have side with him.  





>>That's not true, Fresh Cream is really Mayall without his participation.  

>>Now of course Cream evolved into something different which is their
> stamp, 
>>but the very early Cream are hard to distinguish from Mayall's sound in 
>>1966.  Listen to Spoonful and Bruce's vocal style is a mirror image of 
>>Mayall.
>
>Well, we were talking about songwriting, and Spoonful wasn't written by
>Bruce. It's an old Willie Dixon song. Allow me to clarify: Bruce's
>songwriting doesn't bear much if any Mayall influence.
>Is this fair? Mayall is famous for the songs he didn't write. So even a
>Mayall influence may be better described as a Blues influence. And how
> about


I was going by the sound of Cream as a whole and compared it to how 
Mayall's band sounded at that time.  It had nothing to do with songwriting 
and the song's original authors.  If you did notice, Mayall did make his 
own blues sound which doesn't sound anything like his American idols dead 
or living at the time.  And I'm not even using the infamous "Bluesbreakers" 
album.  Even the songs Mayall wrote and performed with his band just after 
Clapton's stint sound like early Cream.  Again we've taken one statement 
and have broken it down into 30 lines of text.  Amazing.


>Alexis Korner? Wouldn't he figure in, if Mayall did? He was called the
>"Godfather" of British Blues.

Korner never went as far as Mayall in terms of exploring the blues artform 
so Im giving Mayall credit that's way overdue.



>>Ray Davies already landed on the moon with You Really Got Me, Townshend
>just >took rock to mars.  Point being, PT didn't do it first.
>
>YRGM is very Blues-oriented (in fact, it was originally written as a slow
>Blues song). The singles Davies wrote were definitely pushing beyond 
Blues,
>but not very far. Not until after My Gen, anyway. For an example, listen 
to
>the way Davies plays YRGM on his latest solo tour (as he explains how he
>wrote it). That's Blues. If you don't have access to a copy of those 
shows,
>I have some and will be glad to make you a copy. But for now, think about
> it
>at half the speed...shades of Delta Blues! You can't do that to MG.


You were going great until you brought this up.  Pete's original demo for 
My Generation sounds nothing of what came to be.  In fact it too sounds a 
lot like the Delta Blues.  Think of Pete singing "People try to put us 
down" with "Talking..." without the anger, that's blues too!  See it's only 
when you add the attitude to both songs that you get the result.  If My Gen 
isn't blues, how were the Who able to make it so during their '75/'76 tour? 
It didn't take much, they just slowed it down, dropped the bass solo and 
ending.   My Generation has blues written all over it with the call and 
response.  The songs themselves have nothing to do with pushing rock ahead, 
it was how they were performed.  The Who just happened to make MG into a 
very angry song that wasn't heard before it's time.  But Ray planted the 
seeds.


BTW you can find YRGM in this form on "To the Bone" I believe, an import 
from last year.


And I stand by my
>statement that VU weren't influenced by The Who, nor the reverse. It was
> two
>great minds moving in similar directions.

I never disagreed with you on this, I believe that was someone else. 
"I'm pissed off, I'm pissed off all the time" ---Ray Rhodes