Re: Scammed by dealership??

[Daniel Isaac <isa@philabs.research.philips.com>]

James Bratek wrote:

> Your car's Check Engine Light, and any car's for that matter, is a US
> Federally-mandated feature to monitor a car's emissions system (also known
> as ODB-II or On-Board Diagnostics). Typical failures to trip the light on
> are: the gas filler cap not tightened all the way until it 'clicks', or a
> failed catalytic converter or some other blockage/failure of the emissions
> process. This system light DOES NOT indicate any failures of the engine
> itself, so an engine flush or misfire codes are either erroneous or
> byproducts of the root cause.

Not that I am disagreeing with you but the problem could be the coilpack.
This has been a problem on
a lot of  jettas especially 97.   There is an easy way to tell if it the
problem and how to fix it cheap.
It will cause missfires.    Here is the post marc gallagher

BEGIN QUOTE "ok.  As several people have requested my coil pack "mod" here it
is
with the standard "this has worked for me but...." disclaimer.
Several have asked for a "detailed" description so this is long.  I will
write for the novice so those "in the know" bear with me or skip ahead.
All work was done for a fairly stock 97 GLX with 32,000 miles (43,000 now).

Coil Pack Repair/Reinforcement for VR6's:

Part I - Background

        1)  What is a coil pack?  Thanks for asking.  The coil pack replaces
distributor caps on "new and improved" ignition system.  Instead of
having a rotor and distributor cap "distribute" the ignition spark to
individual
cylinders at the right time and order, the spark is controlled
electronically though the electronic ignition system. The coil pack is
where the actual electrical current (spark) is sent to each spark plug via
the wires.

        2)  The pack is generally comprised of a metal base with a plastic
top (insulates the metallic parts so the current is not immediately
grounded).

        3)  The coil pack is located on the right side of the engine (look
from the front) under the plastic manifold covers. Just follow the pretty
spark plug wires to the end and they attach to the coil pack.

        4)   It seems that the VR6 coil packs (at least pre 98's) just suck.
I am not sure if the plastic is not formulated properly, if the molding is
not performed properly or if the design does not distribute stress/heat
well but by listening to the problems people on this list have had, the coil
pack is NOT a quality part.  Either that or it is designed obsolescence,
keeping the dealer stocked with easy, $500 repairs every 30,000 miles.

Part II - Diagnosis

        1)  If you have noticed that on cool, damp days or after driving in
the rain (especially on the highway, especially behind cars/trucks) the
engine is running rough and misfiring, chances are the coil pack has a
crack(s).

        2)  When this happens, the "check engine light" WILL come on
immediately, because the emissions just went to hell.

        3)  If possible, pull over and pop the hood ASAP.  If it is a
cracked coil pack you will notice (at least I did each time there was a
problem):

                a)  a fairly loud "snapping" or "clicking" sound immediately
followed by a rough spot in the idle.

                b)  visible sparks running along the coil pack, generally
from the wire terminal (where the spark plug wires attach) towards the
metal part of the coil pack.  Each spark is tracing a water filled crack and
grounding the spark to the engine block rather than travelling along the
spark plug wire.  Try to remember or draw the location of the sparks.

        4)  If you cannot pull over, or if you want to check later after the
weather gets a bit nicer you can easily simulate rain.  Get a plant
spray bottle/mister and fill with clean water.  Start up the engine and give
the coil pack area a good misting with the bottle.  It may take a few sprays
to
get the pack nice and wet.  This should start the light show again. Try to
remember where the crack(s) is or make a sketch.

        5)  You now know you have the dreaded cracked coil pack.  But have
no fear, there are options...

Part III - Repair Options

        1)  Take car to dealer, tell them the coil pack is ,bad.  They will
respond "that's nice but we will have to confirm" ($56.49).  They will then
call back several hours later saying "you have a bad ,coil pack" (duh) and
that for just $350 in parts and $100 in labor we can put on a new one. So pony
up $500.

        2)  Lucky for you, there are engineers out here who just can't stand
it when a biased party tells me that an inferior part needs to be replaced
with the same inferior part.  So like all good men, especially engineers, I
start to tinker.  Leading to a "fix" that has worked for 11,000 miles so far
- The $3.49 Epoxy Solution.

Part IV - The $3.49 Epoxy Solution

        1)  Drive a different car to Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. and get a
package of high strength, high temperature epoxy.  I *think* the brand I
used was "Poxy-Weld"?  It is the classic twin tube syringe, silver in color
with a cardboard packaging display that unfolded to give product
information.  It is made to repair metal, plastic, etc. with higher
operating temperatures.  It has metal flakes, aluminum I think, to add
strength.  I think the one I used was rated to 250 or 350 degrees.
It was ,like $3.49 for the tube.

        2)  In order to make the repair you will need:
                torx wrenches or driver
                allen (hex) wrenches or driver
                damp rag
                hair dryer
                epoxy
                12 hours (1 hour working, 11 hours waiting)

        3)  Coil pack removal.  This is very easy.  First remove the plastic
manifold covers.  This requires torx head wrenches/driver.  IMPORTANT.
Before trying to loosen the screws, bang the top of the wrench/driver with a
hammer while the wrench/driver is on the screw. Aluminum tends to "corrode"
quickly (look at the manifold) and slightly bond to itself.  By hitting with
a hammer, the bond is broken and the screws can be easily removed.  I know
this from experience (ie partially stripped screw heads).  If you strip the
screw heads, I used a slightly larger allen wrench and literally hammered it
into the torx grooves.  Of course you then need new screws ($12).   Once the
four screws are out, plastic covers come off easily. You can now see the whole
coil pack.

        4)  Unplug the wire harness attached to the top of
the coil pack and move out of the way.  If I remember right it has pinch
clips on the side to unlock the harness.  Unplug the spark plug wires.
Make a diagram of  which plug number goes where.

        5)  The coil pack is held to the engine block by
four, long allen (hex) screws.  I found a hex driver with an
articulated joint made the removal easier.  A socket wrench should also work.
Unscrew and remove  the pack.  It is a bit heavier than you might think so be
careful when  removing the last two screws.

        6)  Take coil pack inside.  Ignore the "you are not a mechanic"
insults coming from the living room (be the ball Danny).  Take off
plastic cover on the top of the pack (just pop over the small
clips).  Wash off  the coil pack with a damp cloth.  If it is really dirty, a
bit of Dawn can  work wonders.  Just make sure to wipe off the soap well.
You will now want  to dry the pack WELL with the hair dryer.  I was probably
a bit anal about  it but I sat in front of the TV for like 20 minutes just
drying the pack. Since there is no real way to tell if all the water is
out of the cracks, I was conservative.

        7)  You are now ready for the epoxy.  Mix a healthy amount is a
small disposable container.  I used a popsicle stick to mix and spread.
Start applying a liberal coat of epoxy.  The first time I did it, I only
covered the places I had seen sparks.  Of course about two weeks after  the
first fix, a new crack or one I had not seen developed so I did it again.
This time I covered the entire plastic portion of the coil pack.
Concentrate on the area between each terminal and the
edge of the pack.  No problem since.  So either coat the cracked
areas or just do the whole thing.I would recommend the whole thing.
The epoxy tends to get a bit sticky so it may work best doing two batchings.

        8)  Set coil pack in a warm place to dry overnight. I did this in
December so by a radiator worked well.  Just don't put
outside since it makes the curing take a lot longer.

        9)  Reinstall the next morning.  I actually did this before work one
day and it took all of about 10 minutes.  Put plastic cover back on pack.
Install pack with four hex bolts and reattach the wire harness.  Plug in
spark plug wires in SAME LOCATIONS.  Install plastic manifold covers (I
put some grease on the aluminum screws before installing
to prevent locking).

        10)  Start car and she should be running like new. It will take at
least 3 warm-up/cool-down cycles to reset the "check engine light"


I hope this helps those interested.  It has worked like a dream for me.  And
at 3.49 vs. 500.00 it is a no brainer to at least try it.  Worst case you
know how to install the pack and can just order the part from a mail order
place (Adirondack, potter, etc.) saving the dealer rape.

I would actually recommend doing this as preventative maintenance.  It's
cheap, easy and can same some significant bucks.  If I ever HAVE to get a
new pack I will do it before installing, just to reinforce it against
cracks.  Feel free to write back with any questions.

Marc
97' Jetta GLX - Red/Black" END QUOTE