Re: pronunciation?

[Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

First, don't blame anyone in Boston. They took the name form the "Original 
Celtics" of New York.  Walter Brown specifically wanted to identify with 
that team.  The pronunciation wasn't questioned since Gaelic, even then, 
was nearly a dead language.

I reprint here a self-proclaimed "rant" from Sharon L. Krossa in 2000 :

I guess I will do my keltic/seltic rant...

"Celtic" and "Celt" come into into the English language via French and 
(Early Modern British) Latin. Until relatively recently, and in many 
circles still today, the standard pronunciation of the word has been 
\SELL-tick\, as is natural and normal and to be expected of an English word 
starting "ce-", especially one that came into English via French (which 
pronounces all its words stating "ce-" with an \S\ sound) and Latin (which 
in British pronunciation pronounces all its words starting "ce-" with an 
\S\ sound).

(Remember that the pronunciation of Latin changed greatly over the 
centuries since Classical Latin, so it is not the pronunciation of 
Classical Latin that matters, but rather the pronunciation of Latin in 
Britain at the time the words came into English.)

I invite everyone to contemplate the number of _English_ words starting 
"ce-" that are *not* pronounced with an \S\ sound. (For the dictionary 
deprived, there is "cello" and..., well, I can't find any others in my 
quick scan, though I'm sure there must be one or two others borrowed from 
Italian with a \TCHEH-\ sound. ;-) In particular, notice all the Latin 
origin words starting "ce-" and pronounced with an \S\ sound, such as those 
words starting "cent-" and the various Latin based medical terms such as 
"cerebrum", "cerebrovascular", and so on.

The reason the Boston Celtics and Glasgow Celtic and all those other sports 
teams founded around 1900 (give or take a couple decades) pronounce their 
names \SELL-tick[s]\ is not because they were founded by ignorant folk who 
didn't know any better, but because they spoke English and *did* know the 
proper pronunciation of the English word "Celtic".

So what happened? Well, any number of things might explain why the in-crowd 
pronunciation shifted to \KELL-tick\ (such as the German influence on 
Celtic studies, which was strong in the 19th and early 20th centuries) but 
the upshot is that it is now fashionable -- almost obligatory -- in certain 
circles to pronounce the word with a \K\ sound rather than the original \S\ 
sound. In fact, in certain circles (both in and out of academia) it is 
something of a litmus test -- if you don't use the \K\ sound, it will be 
assumed you are not knowledgeable about things Celtic. But the one and only 
reason \KELL-tick\ is now one of the _correct_ pronunciations of the word 
is because *that is how many educated people pronounce it*.

Let me repeat that. The reason \KELL-tick\ is a correct pronunciation is 
because that is how many educated people pronounce it. That is the only 
logic in the \KELL-tick\ pronunciation's favor. The standard rules of 
English, the rules of language, long use and practice, all argue in favour 
of \SELL-tick\, not \KELL-tick\. The only thing \KELL-tick\ has in its 
favor is that \KELL-tick\ is how many people actually do pronounce 
"Celtic". Because, and only because, enough people do it, it is a correct 
pronunciation. (This is, by the way, the standard way for variant 
pronunciations to become considered correct -- simple weight of numbers.)

But it still remains that \SELL-tick\ is a long-established, traditional 
pronunciation of the word in English. There is absolutely nothing wrong 
with pronouncing "Celtic" as \SELL-tick\.

Now, I can hear some of you revving up your arguments. I'm sure many of you 
have heard the argument that it "should" be \KELL-tick\ because the 
original Greek word "Keltoi" used a \K\ sound. I'm sure many of you have 
heard the argument that it "should" be \KELL-tick\ because Classical Latin 
pronounced "c" as \K\. I'm sure many of you have heard the argument that it 
"should" be \KELL-tick\ because Gaelic or Welsh or whatever pronounced "c" 
as \K\. But all of this doesn't matter -- none of these arguments justify 
the \KELL-tick\ pronunciation in English.

Why? Because the pronunciation rules of other languages don't apply to 
English. By the arguments above, we should all be pronouncing "Caesar" like 
the German word "kaiser", since that is how the Romans pronounced the word, 
and we should pronounce the name "Cecilia" as \keh-kill-ia\, and so on. But 
we don't -- and anybody who tried to convince us we "should" would be 
thought more than a little odd. Only English pronunciation rules apply to 
English words -- rules that say a word starting with "ce-" is pronounced 
with an initial \S\ sound, especially if it came into English from French 
and/or Latin. So the fact is English and English pronunciation rules have 
considered \SELL-tick\ a correct pronunciation of "Celtic" for four 
centuries or so, since the word first came into English.

The end result is that "Celtic" *ought* to be pronounced \SELL-tick\, but 
because so many pronounce it \KELL-tick\, that is also *a* correct 
pronunciation. I know quite eminent professors in Scotland who pronounce it 
\SELL-tick\. I know others of equal stature who pronounce it \KELL-tick\. I 
don't recommend anyone try to tell any from either group they are wrong.

Myself, I am trying to switch back to \SELL-tick\, simply to defy the 
\KELL-tick\ mafia because some are so insistent on using faulty arguments 
when trying to convince people with perfectly good pronunciations of the 
word how wrong they are -- and I invite any and all language purists to 
join me! (Though remember that litmus test issue mentioned above -- make a 
considered choice ;-)

So, another mantra for y'all:

*Anyone who says "Celtic" is not pronounced \SELL-tick\ is wrong; so is 
anyone who says it is not pronounced \KELL-tick\.

Sharon, ranting a lot... ;-)


If you are curious about info on the Original Celtics, you can check out 
either the NBA Hall of Fame site, where you will find a section of the 
entire team, which was enshrined in 1959.  You will find that like our own 
Boston Celtics, they had a reputation for winning.


At 08:31 AM 3/18/2004, Steve Ouellette wrote:

>My wife asked me this yesterday and, sad to say, I don't remember the answer:
>
>Why are the Celtics pronounced "Seltics" instead of "Keltics"?
>
>STEVE O

Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website