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Re: Greek/Nigerian (aka Baby) Shaq
He didn't even try to make the Clips roster. He signed with an Italian team
but there is still a legal dispute going on with the Greek team for which he
played until last season. Of course that doesn't mean necessarily that he
would have made the roster had he tried. Apparently they decided it's
better for him to get seasoned a bit more in Europe (like the almost-Knick
Frederic Weiss :-) ).
Greek Celtic
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest"
<Celtics-Digest-Owner@xxxxxxxx>
To: <Celtics-Digest@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:47 AM
Subject: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V10 #404
>
> The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest
> Wednesday, October 29 2003 Volume 10 : Number 404
>
>
>
> In this issue:
>
> Re: today's articles
> Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
> Re: Detroit News East Preview
> Prediction for Snoopy
> Re: Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
> re:today's articles
> prediction
> Greek Shaq
> RE: Greek Shaq
> re: RE: Greek Shaq
> Re: changes a plenty
> Re: Greek Shaq
> Greaser II
> Re: Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
> 2003/4 Celts predictions
> Battie for Brevin Knight?
> Re: Battie for Brevin Knight?
> Jim Rome ESPN Show
> "Antoine still has Celtic-blood running thru his heart"
> Celtics flying a new flag: Colors get passed to Pierce, new faces
> Baker's stirring a little
> Bumpy start for Walker
> Baker starting over -- starting tonight
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 28 Oct 2003 13:46:33 EST
> From: Kestutis.Kveraga@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Kestutis Kveraga)
> Subject: Re: today's articles
>
> - --- You wrote:
> But you are sure about Egg being totally wrong concerning Ainge.
> - --- end of quote ---
>
> No, I am not sure. I just said that my impression was different. It
doesn't
> mean that my impression is correct, and that whatever information you're
going
> by is not. But since I have not the slightest idea about the quality of
your
> information or the motivation of your source(s), I think it's reasonable
to
> remain slightly agnostic as to the true nature of Danny Ainge.
>
> - --- You wrote:
> Think what you will ... and you certainly will do just that while
> refusing to read between the lines of the local columnists.
> - --- end of quote ---
>
> I'm not refusing anything. Like I've said before, perhaps they're being so
> subtle that their between-the-lines message is being missed by most
readers. Or
> maybe I'm the only one who's dense and can't read between the lines. If
you
> could point me to the relevant parts of the article(s), perhaps all the
> ever-so-subtle digs at Ainge by the long-suffering local scribes would
reveal
> themselves before my eyes in all their passive-aggresive glory.
> Kestas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:56:29 -0500
> From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
>
> The season is upon us, nearly, where we start playing for real. Jim
> O'Brien is pushing the players through their defensive drills, and Danny
is
> making them run everywhere.
>
> If anyone is going to dress up for Halloween --go as Danny's Brain Drain
> guy, he sounds pretty scary to me!
>
> I have to wonder if Pat Riley quit because he couldn't stomach coaching a
> mediocre team to another bad season.
>
> I have confidence in Vin coming off the bench. But I still think it's too
> soon to throw him into the starting rotation, with the extra minutes
> involved. He looked a bit tired at the end of the last couple of games.
I
> think about 20 minutes is about all he can reasonably handle for the first
> few games, especially the scheduling headache that opens the season. Am I
> the only one around here who thinks this?
>
> I'm already annoyed at most of the "professional" sports writers/pundits
> who seem to go out of their way to take shots at the Celtics. Not the C's
> fault the experts looked foolish for the last two seasons on the
> Celtics. May the Good Guys do it again this season.
>
> I admit, I'm a fan of Jim O'Brien's. I'm really hoping he proves the
> naysayers wrong this season.
>
> My major player disagreement is everyone's (i.e. : Ainge and O'Brien)
> continued insistence on leaving Jumaine Jones on the active list. The guy
> may be a decent player, but he missed the whole of training and
> preseason--and isn't due back for at least another week! He's going to
> look quite bad in comparison to his teammates unless he's lucky, or the
C's
> play really, really badly.
>
> Those of you making predictions to various places, make sure you have them
> in, there's just over a day to go!
>
> Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
> Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 28 Oct 2003 14:09:18 EST
> From: Kestutis.Kveraga@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Kestutis Kveraga)
> Subject: Re: Detroit News East Preview
>
> - --- You wrote:
> << All these out-of-town articles and reviews on the NBA really make me
> appreciate
> the Boston sports media. They may be the "PR firm of ..." as Mark calls
them,
> but at least they occassionally borrow a clue. Most of these out-of-town
> scribes know about as much about the NBA as I do about the National
Bozkashi
> Association, the Afghan pro league of their national sport,
"goat-grabbing".
> Kestas >>
> Why, because the national (out-of-town) writers are ALLOWED to be
> a bit more honest in their assessment of our team?
> - --- end of quote ---
>
> No, because they don't know crap about the NBA, at least the ones that Ray
> chooses to post to the list. (So, it could be selection bias). They simply
> tally up the names they've heard of for a particular team and repeat the
> "common wisdom". Add Antoine Walker, good; subtract Antoine Walker, bad.
No
> understanding of the internal dynamics of a team, no insight of any kind,
just
> dumb shuffling of paper lineups.
>
> As for the oppressed local scribes, perhaps they should form a samizdat
where
> they could publish what they REALLY think about the Celtics under pen
names.
> For we all know the great risks they face if they say what they think in
their
> Celtics-approved columns: a long train ride in a cattle car to a Siberian
labor
> camp, a bullet in the back of the head, even terser post-game quotes from
Obie,
> no free food courtesy of the Celtics ever again.
> Kestas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:08:24 EST
> From: Tammo29@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Prediction for Snoopy
>
> Sorry Snoop, I couldn't send this prediction to the e-mail address you
gave
> because this is how it looks in the archives.....
>
> >>>Here is the e-mail address for new 2003-04 predictions and for changes
to
> current predictions:
>
> 2003prediction@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
> I'm feeling a lot of pressure to repeat as one of the prediction winners
of
> last season.
> This year the prediction is even more difficult. So many changes and so
> little time to judge how the team will fit together.
> I'm sure everyone else is just waiting with bated breath.
> So, after a long period of reflection and one day till the deadline,
> this is probably a little bit on the optimistic side, but I'm going
> with.........
>
> 46 wins-36 losses.........
>
> and hoping it doesn't
> turn out the other way around. :~o
>
> TAM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:17:40 -0500
> From: Kim Malo <kimmalo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
>
> At 01:56 PM 10/28/2003, Snoopy the Celtics Beagle wrote:
> >I have to wonder if Pat Riley quit because he couldn't stomach coaching a
> >mediocre team to another bad season.
>
> Dunno about the reason why, but I've assumed the timing included the
> ability to avoid another trip to much loathed Boston
>
> <snip>
> >My major player disagreement is everyone's (i.e. : Ainge and O'Brien)
> >continued insistence on leaving Jumaine Jones on the active list. The
guy
> >may be a decent player, but he missed the whole of training and
> >preseason--and isn't due back for at least another week! He's going to
> >look quite bad in comparison to his teammates unless he's lucky, or the
C's
> >play really, really badly.
>
> Yeah, I was forgetting about the lack of practice with him being a new
> player here, when looking at that. That's a good point, although I think
on
> the other hand you're ignoring how much just being a veteran asked to play
> a similar role to what you've done in the past can play into readily
> fitting in - look at how smoothly Raef did.
>
> Kim
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:25:03 EST
> From: Tammo29@xxxxxxx
> Subject: re:today's articles
>
> >>I'm not sure I buy Obie's
> claim that he has always detested the "my-turn-your-turn" offense of the
past
> few years and wanted a "passing" offense for years.<<<
>
> I'm struggling with that too. Not only because of things he has said
both
> in public to the media (and in private to the players), but also because
of
> things Ainge has said on record about he and O'Brien not seeing the game
the
> same way.
> But, the way I look at it, as long as he is willing to change, no matter
> who's idea it was, that's fine with me. If he wants to throw that out
there to
> soothe an ego or to save face, which is what I think is more to the truth,
then
> so be it.
>
> >>However, the
> "brain doctor" thing continues to bother me. Larry Bird's advice to Ainge
to
> ditch the "swami and do his own thinking" was priceless. LB is no one's
fool.
> <<
>
>
> I know. It is very disconcerting to think he relies on this guy for every
> thing from player evaluations to what sport his nephew should play. I
just
> think that's a little creepy. You wonder if he asks him what socks he
should wear
> every morning.
> Let's just hope that system of checks and balances that Ainge was talking
> about is in place where the Brain Doctor is concerned as well.
>
>
> TAM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:20:36 -0500
> From: Ken Kokubo <ken_kokubo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: prediction
>
> 48-34
>
> ken (sorry snoop deleted the other address already)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:53:49 -0500
> From: Mark Piotrowski <markp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Greek Shaq
>
> Did anyone see that Sofoklis Schortsanitis (Greek Shaq) didn't make the
> Clippers opening roster? Does anyone know where he ended up? Not
> that someone who couldn't beat out Wang ZhiZhi, Olden Polynice and Josh
> Moore should be on the C's...but I'm curious.
>
> (the other) mark
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:04:54 -0400
> From: "Wright, Cecil" <Cecil.Wright@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Greek Shaq
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Piotrowski
>
>
> Did anyone see that Sofoklis Schortsanitis (Greek Shaq) didn't make the
> Clippers opening roster? Does anyone know where he ended up?
>
> Over at Ray's house with Earnie Brown.
>
> Cecil
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 28 Oct 2003 15:39:09 -0500
> From: wayray@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: re: RE: Greek Shaq
>
> Yes he is Cecil. Coming off the bench behind Gasol, Richardson, Ridnour,
> Randolph, Kendrick Perkins, and the rest of the Ray All-Stars to be....
> Ray
>
>
> > ** Original Subject: RE: Greek Shaq
> > ** Original Sender: "Wright, Cecil" <Cecil.Wright@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > ** Original Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:12:07 -0800 (PST)
>
> > ** Original Message follows...
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Piotrowski
> >
> >
> > Did anyone see that Sofoklis Schortsanitis (Greek Shaq) didn't make the
> > Clippers opening roster? Does anyone know where he ended up?
> >
> > Over at Ray's house with Earnie Brown.
> >
> > Cecil
>
> >** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:10:41 -0800
> From: lapdoggy <lapdoggy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: changes a plenty
>
> On Tuesday, October 28, 2003, at 09:37 AM, Jim Hill wrote:
>
> > Does that mean you get your original $100 back plus the winnings?
> >
> > I.e. The Celtics at +3000 does that mean you get $100 + $3000= $3,100
> > if
> > they win it all or $2,900 + $100 = $3,000?
>
>
>
> Yes, you get your original wager back as well. So in this case you
> would go to the window, after the C's win the Championship, and collect
> 3100 bucks.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 28 Oct 2003 16:25:38 EST
> From: Frederick.T.Hurley.Jr.01@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Frederick T. Hurley Jr.
01)
> Subject: Re: Greek Shaq
>
> - --- Mark Piotrowski wrote:
> Did anyone see that Sofoklis Schortsanitis (Greek Shaq) didn't make the
> Clippers opening roster? Does anyone know where he ended up? Not that
> someone who couldn't beat out Wang ZhiZhi, Olden Polynice and Josh Moore
> should be on the C's...but I'm curious.
> - --- end of quote ---
> Interesting. He didn't make the final roster? Weird. There just has
> to be more to the story. Is he injured, or is there perhaps a contract
> problem?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:22:22 -0500
> From: Douglas342@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Greaser II
>
> In a message dated 10/28/2003 2:17:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kimmalo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
> > At 01:56 PM 10/28/2003, Snoopy the Celtics Beagle wrote:
> > >I have to wonder if Pat Riley quit because he couldn't
> > stomach coaching a
> > >mediocre team to another bad season.
>
> - ---------Sounds like a real good reason to quit to me! And while I
don't really want to see Riley ever again, let's give credit where it's due.
The guy has been a terrific coach for many years, even if a lot of it was at
our expense.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:44:41 -0500
> From: "Dan Forant" <dforant1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
>
> I have grown to actually like Pat Riley. He is a 20+yr hard working coach.
> Showing signs of burn out he has made the correct decision. Mourning's
> ailment did a job on Miami and Riley's future. I don't think he's a
quitter,
> just has nothing left..
>
> DanF
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Snoopy the Celtics Beagle" <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <Celtics@xxxxxxxx>; <Celticsstuffgroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:56 PM
> Subject: Just over 29 hours left before the season starts!
>
>
> > The season is upon us, nearly, where we start playing for real. Jim
> > O'Brien is pushing the players through their defensive drills, and Danny
> is
> > making them run everywhere.
> >
> > If anyone is going to dress up for Halloween --go as Danny's Brain Drain
> > guy, he sounds pretty scary to me!
> >
> > I have to wonder if Pat Riley quit because he couldn't stomach coaching
a
> > mediocre team to another bad season.
> >
> > I have confidence in Vin coming off the bench. But I still think it's
too
> > soon to throw him into the starting rotation, with the extra minutes
> > involved. He looked a bit tired at the end of the last couple of games.
> I
> > think about 20 minutes is about all he can reasonably handle for the
first
> > few games, especially the scheduling headache that opens the season. Am
I
> > the only one around here who thinks this?
> >
> > I'm already annoyed at most of the "professional" sports writers/pundits
> > who seem to go out of their way to take shots at the Celtics. Not the
C's
> > fault the experts looked foolish for the last two seasons on the
> > Celtics. May the Good Guys do it again this season.
> >
> > I admit, I'm a fan of Jim O'Brien's. I'm really hoping he proves the
> > naysayers wrong this season.
> >
> > My major player disagreement is everyone's (i.e. : Ainge and O'Brien)
> > continued insistence on leaving Jumaine Jones on the active list. The
guy
> > may be a decent player, but he missed the whole of training and
> > preseason--and isn't due back for at least another week! He's going to
> > look quite bad in comparison to his teammates unless he's lucky, or the
> C's
> > play really, really badly.
> >
> > Those of you making predictions to various places, make sure you have
them
> > in, there's just over a day to go!
> >
> > Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
> > Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:16:31 -0800 (PST)
> From: R Howe <regmanw6@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: 2003/4 Celts predictions
>
> Put me down for wins to be in the mid 40's range, 46-36. I think we will
sputter and be inconsistent for the first month or so, but by the Holidays
the Celtics should have the bugs worked out to their capability on offense,
and roles clearly defined by then. At worst, barring injuries to the front
court or Pierce, we should be around a .500 club. Anything worse..... well I
would not want to be in O'Brien's shoes.
>
> I think Danny should give this current group at least to the trading
deadline to see how "HIS" roster changes to date may be trending as far as
making that one step back to go two steps forward. It will also give him
time to showcase and build up value to whoever he may want to use in a trade
at that time, plus that seems the best time to deal for max value in return
whether in players or expiring contracts and draft picks. I kind of liked
what I saw of the last two pre-season games, better interior passing, less
selfishness and confidence from Pierce to his teammates, the pushing of the
offense seems to help Pierce in creating better one on one situations and
opening passing lanes for him. This to me is key, as long as Pierce has
confidence in the rest of the team and not trying to do too much on his own,
and the team responds by also playing unselfish and converting the
opportunities that they are given then I think this can be the start of
something special 2-3 years down!
> the road
> (barring injuries of course).
>
> Strengths:
>
> - -- A rested and more mature Pierce, Should be a 22pt per gm, triple
double threat and almost automatic double/double machine.
>
> - -- A deep and versatile Front court. Should actually be able to exploit
match ups at the 4/5 spots, when was the last time we were able to think of
such a thing? A healthy Baker (mind and body), Battie, along with a mad dog
Blount and solid LaFrentz and even McCarty. I think this rotation makes us
much deeper, more versatile, with better rebounding and defense potential
and an improbable improvement over our "love him or hate him" Walker and a
winged Batman of last year.
>
> - -- Overall more athletic, should serve us well over a long season,
hopefully will translate to higher percentage shots, and reduced and more
productive minutes for Pierce.
>
> - -- More roster flex. A deeper, younger squad going forward. Upside to
this team seems improved, don't know maybe an illusion, but I feel more
hhopeful that we are closer to being only one or two players added or
developed to actually mount a challenge for Banner 17.
>
> Weaknesses:
>
> PG - I like Bank's ball handling, defense and tough attitude. He will be
fine with time. Next year he should be a positive factor. In the meantime
James and maybe a mid season vet acquisition? will have to be the bridge to
get us there. I do not think this position will be as weak as we might fear
(more athletic, better defense), and I think Banks might actually develop
pretty quickly and be a sometime positive factor by mid season. overall
though the position will be bottom half when compared to other teams in the
conf.
>
> SF - Hard to say, more athletic, Jones and Brown with fall-back to EWill
when they are not in sync or need a half court option at the position.
>
> Lack of an automatic 2nd scoring option to Pierce. I think developing a
threat that compliments and opens the floor for Pierce to operate will make
or break this season.
>
> Overall just like what seems to be developing. Should be a interesting
year or two.
>
> GO Celts!!
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:21:55 -0800
> From: "Thomas Murphy" <tfmiii@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Battie for Brevin Knight?
>
> Put me down as in favor of this rumored trade. Although I hate to give up
> the luxury of having four 6-11+ folks on the active roster, I think that
> right now the one thing that could seriously disrupt the "transformation"
of
> the offense would be the relative inexperience we have at the point.
Knight,
> say what you will, is a true point who knows how to bring the ball up
> against pressure, direct traffic, generate opportunities for teammates,
take
> advantages of numbers on the break, and get it to the right player at the
> right time. He'd be a great mentor for our two young pups, which should
> enable them to mature their game all the quicker.
>
> Battie, on the other hand, is no longer a key player for the team's
future.
> Even if it would be nice to have him on the roster this year, I doubt that
> will continue to be the case for each of the seasons remaining on his
> contract. Besides, with him gone, isn't it more likely that we may see
some
> time for Perkins and/or Hunter by the end of the season :?) Battie won't
be
> mentoring anyone on this team (at least I hope not!), and his turkey timer
> seems to have popped with regard to his physical stamina.
>
> Getting someone like Brevin, who will *really* contribute to the team's
new
> offense and won't be around any longer than needed, would be a good move.
It
> would address the team's most glaring weakness --which is also a key
> position if Ainge's running experiment is to bear fruit -- and will
benefit
> the team in both the short term (Brevin's play and mentoring) and
long-term
> (Brevin's mentoring and his expiring contract).
>
> Cheers - TomM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:35:07 -0400
> From: Cecil <cecil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Battie for Brevin Knight?
>
> I don't think Knight will help anyone from IR where he seems to spend most
> of his time. And I still would be hesitant to trade Battie since I am
still
> concerned about Baker, the amount of minutes such a move would require him
> to play and the propensity of he and Blount to accumulate fouls in
bunches.
>
> Cecil
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Thomas Murphy <tfmiii@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Celtic list <celtics@xxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 10:21 PM
> Subject: Battie for Brevin Knight?
>
>
> > Put me down as in favor of this rumored trade. Although I hate to give
up
> > the luxury of having four 6-11+ folks on the active roster, I think that
> > right now the one thing that could seriously disrupt the
"transformation"
> of
> > the offense would be the relative inexperience we have at the point.
> Knight,
> > say what you will, is a true point who knows how to bring the ball up
> > against pressure, direct traffic, generate opportunities for teammates,
> take
> > advantages of numbers on the break, and get it to the right player at
the
> > right time. He'd be a great mentor for our two young pups, which should
> > enable them to mature their game all the quicker.
> >
> > Battie, on the other hand, is no longer a key player for the team's
> future.
> > Even if it would be nice to have him on the roster this year, I doubt
that
> > will continue to be the case for each of the seasons remaining on his
> > contract. Besides, with him gone, isn't it more likely that we may see
> some
> > time for Perkins and/or Hunter by the end of the season :?) Battie won't
> be
> > mentoring anyone on this team (at least I hope not!), and his turkey
timer
> > seems to have popped with regard to his physical stamina.
> >
> > Getting someone like Brevin, who will *really* contribute to the team's
> new
> > offense and won't be around any longer than needed, would be a good
move.
> It
> > would address the team's most glaring weakness --which is also a key
> > position if Ainge's running experiment is to bear fruit -- and will
> benefit
> > the team in both the short term (Brevin's play and mentoring) and
> long-term
> > (Brevin's mentoring and his expiring contract).
> >
> > Cheers - TomM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:54:47 -0800
> From: "Greg Odegaard" <grodeg@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Jim Rome ESPN Show
>
> My new favorite hour of sports TV each week gave a moment to the Walker
> trade.
>
> He noted that both teams lost in this deal, with the Mavs picking up
another
> head case scorer, without the minutes or shots to keep him happy and the
> Celtics lost because they virtually gave Walker away for nothing. He noted
> that the deal was effectively Walker for Raef and Raef wasn't worth an
> all-star like Walker, regardless of the problems DA had with Walker.
>
> In his Rome witty way it came across as a major slam PERIOD
>
> Imagine this goes along with most respected opinions throughout the
basketball
> and sports world.
>
> Let's hope it doesn't hurt us too bad, and that Bobby
Hur....errr....Ridenour
> actually can play unlike 90% of the other stiffs of his ilk. The props
for
> non provens against the cuts for at least the same value is getting very
very
> old, but certainly not a surprise based on the past.
>
> Greg
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:23:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ryan W <ubiquitous_am_i@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: "Antoine still has Celtic-blood running thru his heart"
>
> I have a proposition. I say, to all League Pass
> subscribers and longtime--at least 5 years or
> more--Antoine observers, that we watch as many Mavs
> games as we can this year. Since we know (or should
> know) what kind of player Antoine is (that is, what
> his "talent" is, be that what you make of it) it would
> be edifying to observe him in this new setting to
> learn how one's environment affects the way a player
> plays (let's watch Walker to see what kind of player
> he turns out to be) and this, in turn, will help us
> all in judging "talent" in the future.
>
> Ryan
>
> P.S. Antoine was a GREAT LEADER when he was here.
> He'll be a great leader in Dallas. He's going to put
> Dallas in his "girp", just like he had us in his
> "grip", only it's going to have good connotations now
> that he's in Dallas. He's going to be that Derek
> Jeter-type leader--the one who isn't the best player
> but is the most passionate about playing--who is going
> to help motivate and inspire higher-talented yet
> somewhat underperforming-when-it-counts type players
> Dallas seems riddled with... I predict they'll be in
> the Western Conference Finals with Antoine as the
> prime instigator.
>
> P.S.S. For tomorrow night: the Heat will be in a
> back-to-back situation--which is always good for the
> opposing team even in the first week of the
> season--and tonight Odom left the game with an ankle
> injury in the 1st Quarter.
>
> Oh, and I predict the C's will win the East and play
> Dallas in the Finals . . . and lose.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:42:31 -0500
> From: "Stephen Beauregard" <sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Celtics flying a new flag: Colors get passed to Pierce, new faces
>
> Celtics flying a new flag: Colors get passed to Pierce, new faces
> By Mark Murphy
> Wednesday, October 29, 2003
>
> His picture may still be flying from lamppost banners from the FleetCenter
to
> Kenmore Square, but there won't be any mistaking the difference tonight.
>
> For the first time in seven years, starting with tonight's game
against
> Miami, the Celtics will open a season without Antoine Walker [news].
>
> Everything from the number of launched treys to the on-court chatter
will
> be different - definitely quieter.
>
> When Paul Pierce [news] looks for someone to take pressure off those
> hacking double teams, the target will be Vin Baker. Or Kedrick Brown
[news].
> Or Eric Williams and Raef LaFrentz.
>
> Talk about a new look.
>
> Talk about a new attitude.
>
> ``It will be a different feeling to go out there and not see No. 8,''
> Pierce said after yesterday's practice. ``But that's something that I have
to
> get used to. All of the pressure is on me right now.''
>
> Not so, if coach Jim O'Brien is able to reconfigure his rotation
> following the trade last week that sent Walker and Tony Delk to Dallas in
> exchange for LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch, an impending $7 million salary cap
slot
> otherwise known as Chris Mills and a 2004 first-round draft pick.
>
> Pierce surmised last week that he could be the only returning starter
on
> the opening night roster from a year ago, and he couldn't have been more
> correct.
>
> Baker - the league's biggest comeback story as a result of his fight
to
> kick alcoholism - will take Walker's old spot at power forward.
>
> Mark Blount, off the strength of his grinding defensive work during
the
> preseason, has won the starting center spot.
>
> Brown, hoping for a breakout year while beginning his third NBA
season,
> was convincing enough in just about every area to nail down the starting
small
> forward job.
>
> Mike James [news], largely a tutor to rookie Marcus Banks [news] at
point
> guard, begins the year as the playmaker of note.
>
> Which brings us to Pierce, who figures he'll have to excel at a lot
of
> everything to push this team back into the playoffs.
>
> ``But all I can do is to try and go out and do the same things I've
been
> doing since Day 1 in training camp,'' he said. ``I'll have a lot of help.
We
> have a good combination of veterans and young guys who can really get up
the
> floor and get a running game going.
>
> ``We'll be a more competitive group, from top to bottom.''
>
> The Celtics, if not quite as talented on the top end this time
around,
> are certainly deeper.
>
> With LaFrentz, Williams, Walter McCarty [news], Banks and,
eventually,
> the injured Jumaine Jones bringing firepower off the bench, the Celtics
are
> less likely to fall into the prolonged scoring droughts that were so
common
> last season.
>
> ``We really didn't have to make a lot of adjustments,'' coach Jim
O'Brien
> said of the scramble following the Walker trade. ``When you make a
turnaround
> as quickly as this one, you can't change a lot, anyway.
>
> ``We didn't have to throw away a playbook,'' he said. ``As the season
> goes on we'll find more ways to use Raef and Jiri's strengths.''
>
> Not to mention the strengths of a host of others, some of whom played
> only peripheral roles during the Walker administration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
> sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:43:21 -0500
> From: "Stephen Beauregard" <sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Baker's stirring a little
>
> Baker's stirring a little
> By Mark Murphy/Celtics Notebook
> Wednesday, October 29, 2003
>
> For Vin Baker, the toughest part heading into tonight's season-opener
against
> Miami will be the simple process of easing his nerves.
>
> For a player initially considered a backup to Antoine Walker [news] -
and
> someone who is striving to overcome the effects of alcoholism - a sudden
> starting role in the wake of Walker's trade is a tough calling indeed.
>
> ``I just want to get out there and get the butterflies out of the
way,''
> the Celtics power forward said after yesterday's practice. ``I have a long
way
> to go. I've only reached half of my potential.''
>
> That has to be particularly heartening news for Celtics coach Jim
> O'Brien, who has been one of Baker's main supporters during training camp,
> when Baker averaged a solid 8.1 points and 5.6 rebounds coming off the
bench.
>
> ``I'm very confident with him,'' O'Brien said. ``He's shown us he can
> score in the low post, and he's having fun out there. His ability to
sprint
> the court has been phenomenal. And he's been as good a defender as we've
had
> out there.''
>
> Said Paul Pierce [news]: ``I'm very impressed. He came out here at
the
> start of camp and just seemed like a guy on a mission. He's getting the
job
> done. He's completely focused, and he's getting the job done every day.''
>
> Baker, of course, is not one to argue. ``I couldn't have asked for a
> better start in practice,'' he said. ``I feel great.''
>
> Still Riley's Heat
>
> O'Brien does not expect to see anything different in the Stan Van
Gundy
> Heat than the Pat Riley Heat would have put on the floor.
>
> ``You can't change within a couple of days,'' O'Brien said. ``Stan
and
> Pat have been together for a number of years, anyway. We've practiced for
them
> with the idea that Pat is still the head coach.
>
> ``But it's difficult to get a read on any team during the preseason,
> anyway. They'll always come out with something up their sleeves that you
> haven't seen yet.
>
> ``I know that they have great scorers at the 2 and 3 in (Lamar) Odom
and
> (Eddie) Jones,'' he said. ``And Brian Grant always gives us fits. They
play
> extremely hard, and they always defend with a great deal of intensity.''
>
> Blount work pays
>
> Mark Blount, starting center? Consider Blount's promotion a testament
to
> hard work.
>
> ``He's a workaholic with his body,'' O'Brien said. ``He works out
twice a
> day during the summer. He came in in peak condition.''
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
> sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:46:36 -0500
> From: "Stephen Beauregard" <sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Bumpy start for Walker
>
> Bumpy start for Walker
> Newest Maverick jostles with O'Neal
> By Peter May, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003
>
> LOS ANGELES -- He looked . . . different.
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> He still wears No. 8, that was the same. Maybe it was the white sneakers.
Or
> maybe it was the new uniform -- gray, of all colors. Or maybe it was the
> players he played with -- and against -- last night that signified to one
and
> all that Antoine Walker was finally, undeniably, a Dallas Maverick. And
most
> definitely not a Celtic anymore.
>
> He made his Dallas debut against the Lakers at Staples Center last night
and
> in only one half he got the full treatment of Life Under Don Nelson. He
> guarded Shaquille O'Neal and Karl Malone. He got trampled by Shaq and had
a
> shot blocked by Shaq. He posted up Luke Walton. This is life in the
Western
> Conference, where there are very few nights off.
>
> Walker was the first player introduced for the new-look Mavericks, who
also
> had Antawn Jamison, Travis Best, and Tony Delk as newcomers who saw decent
> time in the first half. It took the supposedly high-octane Mavericks quite
a
> while to get going; they didn't crack double figures until the first
quarter
> was nearly 11 minutes old. They trailed the Lakers throughout the first
half,
> even though Los Angeles played without Kobe Bryant.
>
> Prior to the game, Walker talked about how eager he was to finally get
going.
>
> "The last week, all I've talked about is the trade," he said. "I want to
start
> playing some basketball. We've got a lot of good players here, but we
haven't
> been together all that long. We need time to jell."
>
> The game started with Walker guarding Malone, and only 12 seconds elapsed
> before Walker committed his first foul. Twenty-five seconds later, Walker
> turned the ball over on a bad pass. A foul and a turnover in the first 37
> seconds.
>
> But nothing went right for anyone on the Mavericks in the first quarter.
> Walker got his first hoop on a driving layup with 6:28 left. It was his
third
> attempt; he earlier had a shot blocked by Shaq and was wide right on a
3-point
> attempt from the top of the key.
>
> With 3:37 left in the quarter, Walker was replaced by Jamison. He replaced
> Danny Fortson with 63 seconds left. The period ended with Dallas trailing,
> 29-15. Walker had 2 points, a rebound, and an assist.
>
> Walker played the entire second quarter and had 8 points and two more
> rebounds. He connected on two treys, including one with a minute left that
> brought the Mavericks to within 49-43.
>
> It was also during this period that Walker guarded, or tried to guard,
O'Neal.
> It wasn't a total mismatch; Shaq had only one basket while being guarded
by
> Walker. But it was yet another indication that Walker, like most of his
> teammates, is going to be expected to play many roles. He also spent some
time
> in the period chasing around Gary Payton and Devean George.
>
> The Mavericks did manage to cut the deficit to a manageable 55-45 at the
> break. Walker had 10 points, 3 rebounds, and an assist in 21 minutes. He
was 2
> for 3 on 3-pointers and 4 for 8 from the field overall.
>
> Most of all, he simply was happy to be playing again. Even if it meant
having
> to go against Shaq once in a while.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
> sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:47:16 -0500
> From: "Stephen Beauregard" <sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Baker starting over -- starting tonight
>
> Baker starting over -- starting tonight
> By Shira Springer, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003
>
> WALTHAM -- The Moment came in an exhibition game Jim O'Brien first called
> "irrelevant" and later characterized as "a farce." He was right, except
for
> two telling seconds in the fourth quarter. The Moment came in Manchester,
> N.H., at an arena unaccustomed to hosting NBA games, on a Saturday night
when
> most sports fans were watching the first game of the World Series. Not
many
> saw The Moment, and even fewer recognized it. But it should be duly noted
> because it was the first time since coming to Boston that Vin Baker felt
like
> his old NBA self. With 8 minutes 17 seconds remaining in a game against
the
> Indiana Pacers, Baker received a bounce pass from Walter McCarty just left
of
> the paint. Baker spun right around defender Jeff Foster, then, in one
fluid,
> dominant motion, slammed down a right-handed dunk in the face of Carl
English.
> A power move with a powerful finish. Baker received congratulations from
his
> teammates, but he acted as if he had dunked like that a thousand times.
And he
> probably had, but never was such a move so meaningful.
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> "All my bad habits I've developed the last three or four years left me on
that
> move," said Baker. "It was all instinct. It felt like how it was when my
> instincts used to take over in a game and I would just do things."
>
> It did not matter that The Moment came during an exhibition game, not
after
> Baker spent the offseason reconditioning his body and continuing his
recovery
> from alcoholism. When he arrived for training camp Oct. 2, Baker did not
know
> how his body would respond to the rigors of the NBA game or how his mind
would
> deal with the pressures of the NBA lifestyle as he tested his sobriety.
>
> Baker never imagined that in the season opener -- which is tonight against
> Miami at the FleetCenter -- he would be the Celtics' starting power
forward
> and arguably the most positive story to come out of the 2003 NBA
preseason.
>
> For all the candor Baker showed in discussing his alcoholism with the
Globe in
> September, he held back on the one aspect of his comeback that made him
most
> apprehensive: Returning to the FleetCenter and hearing the reaction of
Boston
> fans in person.
>
> When Baker received a warm welcome that included standing ovations at the
> final two exhibition games, he figured the first stage of his comeback was
> complete. Stage 2 starts tonight. But Baker's guiding philosophy, the one
he
> learned through rehabilitation at Silver Hill Hospital in New Canaan,
Conn.,
> remains the same.
>
> "I haven't forgotten where I was nine months ago," said Baker. "We have a
> saying at Silver Hill: Keep it in the day. And I keep it in the day. As
much
> as starting for the Boston Celtics is huge, I'm still a recovering
alcoholic.
> I don't look at tomorrow or the whole season ahead. I just concentrate on
> getting better at the gym. I concentrate on being sober and keeping my
> sobriety every day. If you can do that, it's a wonderful journey.
Everything
> hasn't been so overwhelming for me because I keep it very much in the day.
>
> "That's taken the statistics, the pressure away from me. I know where I
can be
> today. I can be better. I can't control what happens [opening night]. I
can't
> control what happens until the All-Star break, but I can control the day.
If
> you can keep that mind-set and not worry about tomorrow, that's how you
> improve. If I have a bad day, most likely it's because I'm thinking about
too
> many things or I'm thinking about [opening night] or I'm gearing myself up
for
> the FleetCenter game and not worrying about practice."
>
> So far, there have not been many days when Baker played poorly. The
> 6-foot-11-inch forward/center got reacclimated to the NBA game with
surprising
> speed, though he believes he's at only "45 percent" of where he needs to
be.
>
> There remains obvious room for improvement on defense, though Baker
averaged a
> team-high 5.6 rebounds per game during the exhibition season. He can do a
> better job of scoring in the low post and getting to the foul line. He
needs
> to look for his shot more than look to pass. He can add a little weight to
> assist his game. (A revised diet with more red meat should take care of
that.)
> He would like to play with more consistency and get into better synch with
the
> rhythm of NBA competition.
>
> Leadership role Every practice and game brings Baker closer to the form
that
> made him a four-time All-Star. But don't expect Baker to remember that far
> back, just as he does not look too far ahead. His comeback is about more
than
> accolades and statistics. He concerns himself with team goals. As for
> statistics, he will say only that his will be better than the 5.2 points
and
> 3.8 rebounds he averaged in 52 contests last season.
>
> Asked how confident he felt with Baker on the court, O'Brien said, "Very.
He's
> in really good condition. He's hungry. He can score in the low post. He's
> having fun out there. In my estimation, he's a very young 31-year-old. His
> ability to sprint the court offensively and defensively is phenomenal.
He's as
> strong a defender as we have up front. Every phase of the game, I feel
good
> about what he's doing."
>
> But the biggest and best measure of Baker's progress has nothing to do
with
> numbers. It has to do with how people perceive him, the context into which
> they place his story. Locally, his story has become about much more than
his
> recovery from alcoholism.
>
> Baker regularly weighs in on a variety of basketball topics, commenting
about
> the state of the team, the changes made to the offense, the new
acquisitions.
> His opinion matters not because of what he went through, but because of
what
> he now means to the team. Following the last practice of the preseason
> yesterday, O'Brien said he would like Baker to become a more vocal leader.
> Baker believes, in time, he will assume that role.
>
> Alcoholism will always be part of his story, but Baker seems comfortable
with
> that. He sees an opportunity for another kind of leadership -- as a sober
role
> model who can offer encouragement to others suffering from addiction.
>
> "When I have a decent game and I come home and I'm sober, it's tremendous
to
> wake up feeling good about something," said Baker. "Those two things
combined,
> what I'm doing off the court and how I'm growing on the court, is just a
great
> feeling. I look forward to tomorrow. I'm laying down like I can't wait
till
> tomorrow."
>
> Baker credits his teammates for giving him unconditional support. They,
too,
> have made concessions. According to Baker, alcohol is no longer available
on
> the team plane. Last season, Baker was always quick to leave the practice
> facility. Now, he stays longer, hanging out with his teammates.
>
> "It's easier to come to the gym and work on things and feel comfortable
about
> it," said Baker. "Because I'm so comfortable with everything else that's
> happened in my personal life, now I don't have a problem with saying my
> basketball level needs to get here. I'm having fun coming to the gym every
day
> and seeing how I can get better. It's just fun for me."
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
> sb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V10 #404
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