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RE: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V10 #297
I am less worried about the players and more worried about the worst
in-game coach in the nba (not including isiah of course but that is LB's
problem). Two years ago against the Nets in the playoffs we were down
by 20 points every first quarter and yet obie would not change the
starting line-up. The worst coaching "non-move" I have ever seen (as
you can tell I am still bitter about it). Especially because erick
Strickland was tearing up the nets. I don't think anything can really
change until we get a coach that understands how to make adjustments
during the game (I am not even arguing about his 3 point attack, I don't
have the time or energy to deal with that). I know he has been somewhat
strapped for talent because of the idiocy that is chris wallace (does he
fill out his resume using crayon?) but I just can not understand his
in-game decisions.
I hope banks and hunter pan out (hunter intrigues me but so did eric
Macarthur and the great dave popson) but I don't think jumaine jones is
anything to be giddy about (a marginally better duplicate of walter
mccarty, I can already hear tommy with his "I love Jumaine!!").
Either way, I agree that we have made some progress but until obie
improves and until we can get out of the abyss that wallace put us in,
the marginal improvements still equal at best a first round playoff win.
It's really too bad too because Pierce is the real thing. Two years ago
you could see it in his eyes at the beginning of the year. I didn't see
the same look from him last year but I am blaming that on lack of rest
due to the world championships, etc.. Is this the year? I doubt it.
Will I root for the c's? certainly. But until Obie goes, we're in a
canoe with one paddle.
rmn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Wyc Grousbeck
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 2:28 PM
To: Celtics@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V10 #297
Snoopy, and others, the list is great. Positive and pessimistic comments
both add interest and both at times are justified. If Baker, Banks and
Jones play the way we think they can, we could be much improved. See you
at the games.
-----Original Message-----
From: Celtics-Digest-Owner@xxxxxxxx (The Boston Celtics Mailing List
Digest)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:53:00
To:Celtics-Digest@xxxxxxxx
Subject: The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V10 #297
The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest
Monday, August 11 2003 Volume 10 : Number 297
In this issue:
Pierce and the Olympics
contenters
Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The East
Re: Celtics Need To Get In On This Wallace Action
Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The East
RE: Celtics Need To Get In On This Wallace Action
Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The East
Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The East
Banks revisited
Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The East
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 10:53:35 -0400
From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Pierce and the Olympics
"In the end, USA Basketball apparently did come back to Paul Pierce in
an
attempt to make amends for essentially snubbing the Celtics during
selection of the 2004 Olympic men's basketball team. When a conflicted
Kobe
Bryant took himself off the roster for this month's FIBA qualifying
tournament in San Juan, Puerto Rico, and before Vince Carter was plugged
in
as the Laker guard's replacement, the spot was reportedly offered to the
Celtics co-captain. It was, as one USA Basketball official has put it,
the
organization's way of saying thanks to a player who had agreed to play
in
the 2002 World Championships when most of the NBA's other stars were
saying
no for various selfish reasons. Pierce's agent, Jeff Schwartz, did not
return calls placed to his office last week. Pierce reportedly told USA
officials that he wanted to prepare for the upcoming NBA season." Boston
Herald
This story, if accurate, explains why Vince Carter ended up on the team,
and makes me wonder about the circumsances in which Pierce was asked.
At
first, when reading this, I was annoyed at Pierce for saying no, because
I
think it's important to take the opportunity to represent your country
seriously. As the article mentioned, I was put off by several athletes
who, unlike Pierce, did not want to commit to playing THIS summer in
order
to go to the Olympics. I wondered why Pierce changed his mind.
Then, I looked at the calendar. Today is August 10. Again presuming
the
article to be accurate (not a given, but proceeding on that basis), that
means they asked Pierce in the last 10 days. The FIRST PRACTICE is this
week, with the team gathering for the first time TODAY. Larry Brown is
on
record as saying there isn't enough time to properly
prepare. Unfortunately, he also said they players are "sacrificing a
lot
of their time this summer", which is a fallacy. The qualifying
tournament
starts in 10 days.
That would mean that Pierce, who has been tailoring his summer workout
to a
season that starts in October is asked on a week's notice to play
competitive international ball with people who haven't worked together
at
all. Last season, with proper notice, he overdid it, and came into the
season tired. At this point, it might be a disaster, with injury a near
certainty. Not only that but the position offered to Pierce and
eventually
given to Vince Carter is not guaranteed. In other words, Pierce,
supposedly taking Kobe Bryant's place THIS summer, is not a given to be
on
the team NEXT summer no matter HOW well he plays, since Kobe is still
considered a guaranteed player--assuming the legal situation is worked
out
to his benefit by then. At that, there's several other players on the
roster who would be in the same boat.
So the offer comes down to asking Pierce long after he should have been
considered to essentially be a temp player in the qualifying games but
fight for potential place with others who were asked months ago with
plenty
of time to prepare.
It's a losing proposition for Pierce. Go, and likely be embarrassed and
hurt in the process. Plus his conditioning will be shot as far as the
C's
are concerned. DON'T go, and take shots for not being willing to
go. Frankly, I think he ought to go, but then, Pierce has trouble
getting
foul calls in THIS country. Imagine what happens in San Juan!
It's sad, because I think he deserves to go. But he also deserves to
have
been asked way back when everyone else was, instead of the public insult
wherein his name wasn't even mentioned, despite a few experts who saw
last
summer's games and knew Pierce was one of the few positive contributors.
After what happened at the All-Star Game last winter, maybe Pierce wants
someone to meet him halfway. A little respect, or at least not a
deliberate
insult. He plays well enough to be asked. He was the first to come out
and say he'd play this summer if asked (back in February, not a week
before
the team starts their few days of practice), and frankly, makes a better
representative than Allen Iverson.
At this point, he might as well work on his preparation for the NBA
season. The Celtics, at least, definitely want him to play, and told
him
so with enough time to prepare.
Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 09:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: gene kirkpatrick <gk_tyler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: contenters
We could be contenders, not that a journalist could say that because
they have to take the reasonable, logical approach. We could be
contenders, not that our motley crew of list experts like to project
such "wishful" thinking. In my mind, at least, we would be contenders
but for the coaching our team will receive.
A. (as in exhibit A) We have the best player in the East. Yeah, yeah,
McGready is a thoroughbred offensive star with a great smile; I love
him, too, but Paul is the best player in the East. Kidd is second.
B. We added significant speed and bench strength to last year's
recoiling team. Banks and Hunter, plus Jones, bring quite useful
skills.
C. Walker. Williams. Battie. These old horses are due to play up to
their best, and given the right minutes, they will.
D. Danny Ainge. Danny will be a difference maker as the season goes
along.
E. O'Brien. Coach will most likely cause us great consternation, with
his sub patterns, with his reliance on the old guard, with his lack of a
real offense. To be sure, this can cancel out all of the positives.
F. The East ain't much better than us. We can beat any one of them. I
think we will end up second.
Gene
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:55:59 -0400
From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The
East
At 04:18 PM 8/10/03 +0000, rltjr33 wrote:
>--- In Celticsstuffgroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "howiecarrfan"
><howiecarrfan@xxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> > And I'm sure this article will offend the usual cheerleaderish
> > types....
> >
>Which is, of course, the only reason you put it up, not that you care
>one iota about its accuracy or lack thereof.
>
>We'll see who's standing come May, Ray. In the meantime, put up
>articles and keep the commentary to yourself.
>
>-Rob
I have to disagree with both Rob and Way/howie.
I disagree with W/H because I disagree with the Peter May article
itself. The Celtics, as a playoff contender in two consecutive seasons,
belong in any top 5 list in the EC. Especially over Indiana.
I disagree with Rob because even though W/H comments ARE sometimes
annoying, he has a right to express them. And, in fairness, he didn't
write the article, he just agrees with it. The comments ARE germane to
the
subject of the list.
It's hard sometimes to draw the line between constructive criticism and
just being annoying. I've done BOTH in my time. :>)) But honestly,
wouldn't it be kind of dead around here if all anyone EVER posted was
variations on how wonderful the Celtics are? Likewise if the comments
went
all in the other direction. This list needs it's curmudgeons as much as
it's optimists. Speaking for myself, I like to be occasionally
challenged
in my beliefs--reasonably--so that I can properly articulate my reasons
for
holding the beliefs I do. OK, sometimes, I like a good argument. :>))
W/H has, presumably an IQ higher than a radish. He knows his views are
unpopular and that he'll take some heat for posting from some
quarters. Just as anyone perceived as being overly positive will take a
few shots.
But we're not journalists. We're fans. The main job of a fan, when all
is
said and done, is to root for the team. We're SUPPOSED to be biased.
At
least a little. We want our team to win. Do some of us take that
desire
personally? Sure. But where's the harm. Let's face it. Neither W/H,
or
I, to name but two (three?) are in a position to run the team. And if
any
of us were, there'd probably be a mass defection to the
Nets. :>))))) (Ok, except Kim, who would take Jan Volk's job and end
up
in the HOF for her understanding of salary caps and the Reggie Lewis
situation. There's always an exception to the rule.)
Do we have whimsy? Gee, Egg, what do you think? :>)) Why not? Does
everything have to be dry and serious? I hope not. Yet, there's a
place
here for serious discussion as well. People on these lists have made
some
incredibly prescient observations on the team, coaching, rookies, draft,
and the upcoming season. We cover the gamut from longtime fans to
people
who can at least recognize a basketball as opposed to a football.
So I can't, in all honesty,bring myself to encourage ANYONE to NOT give
their opinion on the team, even if they're a little down on the C's.
Look
at it this way. At the end of the season, either we'll be saying
'nyahh,
nyahh' to the naysayers as we raise Banner 17, or they'll be "I told you
so"-ing us while we cry in the beverage of our choice. Then we get to
have
fun looking forward to next season.
It could be--and HAS BEEN--a lot worse. We don't have a True Center,
no;
and our offensive strategy is, ummm, hazy. We also don't have Rick
Pitino,
ML Carr or Paul Gaston. I think we're ahead of the game. For those
considering Baker a negative, remember, we made the playoffs WITHOUT
him. So if he gives us nothing, we grit our teeth and hope for a trade
or
medical retirement. BUT--if he can even give us a little bit, whoah,
look
out!!!
I'm an optimist, for many reasons public and private. I don't believe
in
giving up. I am a second-generation Celtics fan. I'm doing my best to
run
a decent website for me and my fellow fans, even though it's taking it's
toll on me some days. I like the Celtics, and want them to win. Every
game, every season, every championship. No, THAT won't happen. But the
C's have come closer than ANYONE to doing it. And I'm REALLY looking
forward to the day when the CBW can once more proudly proclaim it is a
website devoted to the WORLD CHAMPION BOSTON CELTICS.
That day ought to be coming sometime this June.
Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:43:23 EDT
From: Eggcentric@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Celtics Need To Get In On This Wallace Action
< Upon further review, apparently Sabonis would be part of a Wallace
trade. So, he could play center. > - WayRay
I love watching Sabonis play, even with diminished skills. Had he been
allowed into the NBA prior to his thirties, he could have easily been
a hall-of-famer. But our embalmed eminence will be 39 this coming
season and his mpg (15.5 in 2002-03) have been decreasing for
several years. So what might we expect from him... 10-12 mpg?
Eggy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:48:23 EDT
From: Eggcentric@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The
East
< Do we have whimsy? Gee, Egg, what do you think? :>)) > - Snoop
Dunno. Just dunno. I ain't no odd notion thingy, no literary trifle.
I ain't fanciful neither. I ugly. Ya hear me?
<I'm an optimist > - Snoop
No need for such shameless bragging in a public forum.
< I am a second-generation Celtics fan > - Snoop
And it has been a thousand Fortnights since this tragic Muse first trod
the Celtic stage.
< And I'm REALLY looking forward to the day when the CBW can once
more proudly proclaim it is a website devoted to the WORLD CHAMPION
BOSTON CELTICS. That day ought to be coming sometime this June. >
- - Snoop
Or, please God, at least by June, 2010. I only have about seven good
years left before Heaven realizes it was a crime for me to have loved
the Toine too much.
Oh dearest Snoop, we could have been the Justin Gouveia/Danela
Alfaro-Lopez of the sports boards. Now ... I just dunno. This horrible
Baker plague has come betwixt us.
EGGwhiny
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 16:52:04 -0700
From: "John Lyell" <jlyell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Celtics Need To Get In On This Wallace Action
I heard it was Martin and Mutombo for Wallace and Patterson and it was
Mutombo's contract about $39M over the next two years and Martin wanting
the
max that were the problems.
It would be nice to send them Baker and Walker for Wallace in a package.
Baker's doesn't sound any worse than Mutumbo's, but I guess if he can't
play what happens then? Can a team void the contract?
Wallace definitely give us someone better suited for the 4/5 spots than
Battie or Walker.
John
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-celtics@xxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Way Of The Ray
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:49 AM
To: celtics@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Celtics Need To Get In On This Wallace Action
With word filtering down, that Portland and New Jersey are talking about
a Martin/Mutumbo for Rasheed Wallace trade, it behooves Danny Ainge
to interject himself into the discussions. As tough a matchup Martin was
for Toine, Wallace is still a nice upgrade and would make the Nets
even stronger.
Methinks, with Portland's need for a young center, a package of Walker
and
Battie, or Walker, Perkins, and cap crap for Rasheed might interest the
Blazers.
Wallace and Pierce would give the Celtics one of the best duos in the
East,
and with Rasheed's $17M. contract expiring after the season, a buyout
of Baker and a Wallace departure, would make the Celtics major players
in free
agency next year.
Awake yourself from your comatose-inducing free agent maneuvers Danny
Boy
and get to it....
Ray
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:45:02 -0400
From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The
East
At 03:48 PM 8/10/03 -0400, Eggcentric@xxxxxxx wrote:
>< Do we have whimsy? Gee, Egg, what do you think? :>)) > - Snoop
>
>Dunno. Just dunno. I ain't no odd notion thingy, no literary trifle.
>I ain't fanciful neither. I ugly. Ya hear me?
You're an egg. Hard to tell the ugly from the shell. :>)
><I'm an optimist > - Snoop
>
>No need for such shameless bragging in a public forum.
I know, it's my upbringing. Blame it on the round-headed kid, or the
bunny-wunnies--take your pick.
>< I am a second-generation Celtics fan > - Snoop
>
>And it has been a thousand Fortnights since this tragic Muse first trod
>the Celtic stage.
Let's see, fortnight is so many days, ummm....no, a month, no....
I hate math.
>< And I'm REALLY looking forward to the day when the CBW can once
>more proudly proclaim it is a website devoted to the WORLD CHAMPION
>BOSTON CELTICS. That day ought to be coming sometime this June. >
>- Snoop
>
>Or, please God, at least by June, 2010. I only have about seven good
>years left before Heaven realizes it was a crime for me to have loved
>the Toine too much.
Maybe they'll take it off time in purgatory. Besides, Hell won't bother
you, you'll be hard boiled in three minutes... :>)
> Oh dearest Snoop, we could have been the Justin Gouveia/Danela
>Alfaro-Lopez of the sports boards. Now ... I just dunno. This
horrible
>Baker plague has come betwixt us.
Rats. I was hoping for Rick and Ilsa. Sigh, one too many Sopwith
Camels
shot down...
If you're wondering where the Celtics-related content is, just wait
until
tomorrow, when Peter May uses these posts as the basis for his next
column. (I'm KIDDING!!!!)
Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:09 -0400
From: "Shawn Niles" <shizzjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The
East
1000 fortnights is 38.356 years.
>From: Snoopy the Celtics Beagle <snoopy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Celtics@xxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The
East
>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:45:02 -0400
>
>At 03:48 PM 8/10/03 -0400, Eggcentric@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >< Do we have whimsy? Gee, Egg, what do you think? :>)) > - Snoop
> >
> >Dunno. Just dunno. I ain't no odd notion thingy, no literary trifle.
> >I ain't fanciful neither. I ugly. Ya hear me?
>
>You're an egg. Hard to tell the ugly from the shell. :>)
>
> ><I'm an optimist > - Snoop
> >
> >No need for such shameless bragging in a public forum.
>
>I know, it's my upbringing. Blame it on the round-headed kid, or the
>bunny-wunnies--take your pick.
>
> >< I am a second-generation Celtics fan > - Snoop
> >
> >And it has been a thousand Fortnights since this tragic Muse first
trod
> >the Celtic stage.
>
>Let's see, fortnight is so many days, ummm....no, a month, no....
>
>I hate math.
>
> >< And I'm REALLY looking forward to the day when the CBW can once
> >more proudly proclaim it is a website devoted to the WORLD CHAMPION
> >BOSTON CELTICS. That day ought to be coming sometime this June. >
> >- Snoop
> >
> >Or, please God, at least by June, 2010. I only have about seven good
> >years left before Heaven realizes it was a crime for me to have loved
> >the Toine too much.
>
>Maybe they'll take it off time in purgatory. Besides, Hell won't
bother
>you, you'll be hard boiled in three minutes... :>)
>
> > Oh dearest Snoop, we could have been the Justin Gouveia/Danela
> >Alfaro-Lopez of the sports boards. Now ... I just dunno. This
horrible
> >Baker plague has come betwixt us.
>
>Rats. I was hoping for Rick and Ilsa. Sigh, one too many Sopwith
Camels
>shot down...
>
>If you're wondering where the Celtics-related content is, just wait
until
>tomorrow, when Peter May uses these posts as the basis for his next
>column. (I'm KIDDING!!!!)
>
>Snoopy the Celtics Beagle
>Please visit the <http://www.celticsbeagle.net/>Celtics Beagle Website
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:11:36 EDT
From: Eggcentric@xxxxxxx
Subject: Banks revisited
No doubt about it, Banks is fast as lightning and cocky as Joseph Forte.
Months prior to the draft, when not one of the various gurus (Monter,
Burlison, Deveney, Katz, Kahn, Glier, Hollinger, Ford) figured
Banks to be drafted in the first round, what were they thinking?
Is it silly to assume that such esteemed Gurus did their homework...
that they at least followed college ball (if not the foreign market)
and consulted with various GM's and other notable NBA ''experts''
prior to ranking Banks as a second-rounder?
The early consensus first-round PG picks were:
1- James (pick #1)
2- Ford (#8)
3- Hinrich (#7)
4- Wade (#5)
5- Ridnour (#14)
6- Gaines (#15)
7- Diaw #19)
8- Barbosa (#28)
9- Planinic (#22)
Even Troy Bell, Mo Williams, Marcus Moore, and Chris Thomas were
mentioned ahead of Banks. So where and when did Banks (#13)
suddenly come from... and why?
Are the gurus that out-of-touch?
Egg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:17:58 EDT
From: Eggcentric@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Re: May on the Five Best Teams In The
East
< 1000 fortnights is 38.356 years. > - Shizz
Sorry - you forgot to factor in the leap years. Besides, it was
actually
1003 Fortnights; I just rounded it off.
Egg
------------------------------
End of The Boston Celtics Mailing List Digest V10 #297
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