Re: A passing fancy

[Tammo29@xxxxxxx]

>Well no we're not just going to have to get over it (man, are you trying to 
be as >>infuriatingly patronizing as you can? why not do it to someone who's 
asked for it >>rather than JB)


   I'm not sure what I said to deserve that kind of a response.  I simply 
gave my opinion which is something everyone on this list does every day.  It 
wasn't even aimed at JB, it was a generalization (notice the word people 
rather than singling anyone out?).
  I won't even ask what was meant by "someone who asked for it."
  I don't think JB took offense to anything I said since nothing I said was 
the least bit critical in my opinion, but if he did, I apologize.
I'd say I would just chalk up your response to a bad day, but I'm sure that 
would come off infuriatingly patronizing as well.

As far as the rest of your post, I never made it into a Pierce/Walker thing.
I thought I was perfectly clear that I feel a certain number of turnovers are 
both acceptable and inevitable for both simply because of their roles on the 
team.  
Players that have a high number of turnovers seem to fall into two 
categories-the creators (Kidd, Francis, Iverson, Marbury)
and the players that get to the free throw line (Stackhouse, Malone, Duncan, 
O'Neal, Bryant)
Some players fit in both categories (Iverson, Francis, possibly Bryant and 
Stackhouse)
Last year Antoine fit in the first category, Paul fit in the second category.
So far this year, if he continues to lead the team in assists, Pierce could 
possibly fit into both categories as well.

Either way these players turnovers are caused by being aggressive and taking 
chances.  I can't see how you can say one kind of turnover is bad and the 
other kind is good.  Can the player that is getting to the free throw line 
with his aggressiveness cut down on his turnovers by not taking the ball into 
traffic?
Sure he can, just as the player who is creating could cut down on his 
turnovers by not taking chances with the difficult pass.  In the end your 
talking about less points either way.
I suppose it's debatable but I don't think any coach would want Duncan to be 
less aggressive going to the basket or for Kidd to take less chances with a 
pass simply to cut down on their turnovers.

The same goes for Pierce.  Last season the Celtics were middle of the road in 
team free throw attempts at 23.9 a game.  Take half of Pierce's 7.8 a game 
away from that and we are dead last.

I think it's great that most Celtic fans have seemed to come to terms with 
Antoine the basketball player. It only took six years. They are no longer 
looking for his every mistake.  They realize that what they see is what they 
are going to get because that is who he is.
I don't think it's as much that he has changed on the court, because he 
really hasn't.  He's changed off the court.  He's worked harder in the off 
season.  He's been more responsive to the Coaches and his teammates and just 
simply matured.
But his game is basically the same. He still takes a lot of threes and he 
still drives into traffic and gets his shots blocked. People are just more 
willing to overlook those things. 
Do you think he could have had three offensive fouls or had only three 
rebounds in a game this time last year and anyone would have written that 
there was nothing in his game left to criticize?
I don't. 
 So who has really changed?  Antoine or Celtics fans?
Now it would be nice if some fans would do the same for Pierce.
His game isn't perfect, no one's is, but he's still young.  He has played 285 
games which works out to about 3 & 1/2 seasons and he's already near the top 
of the league at what he does best.  He will get better at the other things 
because he works hard at getting better all the time.  But his game isn't 
going to change any more than Antoines did.  And fans that are going to 
demand perfection or look for every little mistake are going to drive 
themselves and everyone around them nuts.  At some point they will also have 
to come to the realization that they will have to take the good with the bad, 
just as most of Antoines critics have done whether they realize it or not.  
That's just my opinion.

TAM