Non-Pitino Related

["Michael Griffin" <mgriffin@rillc.com>]

Perhaps the players are trying harder because the defensive game plan is
simpler and they are seeing the results (i.e. winning is contagious, winning
the result of effort but the old system made winning difficult regardless of
effort, etc...).  Even Randy Brown said, there is communication now, blah,
blah, blah, Pierce: We are winning games now we wouldn't have won a month
ago....I guess we'll never know if the players dogged it or if they were
just demoralized because efforts for last two years did not produce tangible
improvement....Bird never had to suffer from that standpoint...that
is....play on a team that was eliminated basically eliminated from the
post-season by the all-star break.  Of course, Bird WAS the reason the team
always contended so no Walker is not Bird and never will be but I guess Bird
is a once in a lifetime player and Walker is more in the mold of the Andre
Agassi generation (Image is everything) and my stats are equally important
to me as winning.  Oh well...like you Mark I'll always be a Celtics fan
regardless who is on the team.  Are there any role models on this team that
I can point out to my two sons (who are a little too young today), at this
point, I'd probably say no but I'm a fan of the team and I'm a fan of the
players on the team even if I think the effort could be better or their
discipline or the physical shape.....As long as the player keeps his private
life clean, that is about all management can ask these days.  The days of
players playing for the love of the game are fading quickly unfortunately.
I know we all watch these games and think to ourselves, I'd play for 10% of
what Walker makes and I'd be at the Fleet Center for 50 weeks out of the
year.  I'd relocate to Boston as long as I was playing.  I'd represent 10
charities.  I'd do this and I'd do that.  I guess we appreciate their
positions more than they do because we are not them.  Oh well, this is
getting beyond the scope of the list and like you I'll keep future posts
directed towards the rest of the season as opposed to this qualitative
mularky.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Berry, Mark S [mailto:berrym@BATTELLE.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 10:59 AM
> To: 'mgriffin@rillc.com'; Berry, Mark S; 'OzerskyJA'; celtics@igtc.com
> Subject: RE: Pitino haters alert
>
>
> OK, I'm not going to bring it up again after this post. In fact,
> I wouldn't
> have brought it up at all except for the "it was all Pitino" column posted
> earlier. I just posted a different point of view that I happen to agree
> with.
>
> Michael, I agree with a lot of your points here, but when you say "they
> aren't putting a better effort defensively now, the system is better," I
> have to take exception. These guys definitely are playing harder,
> especially
> on the defensive end. I can't believe you haven't noticed. They had
> absolutely quit on Pitino (and, as another post said, on the fans and
> organization as well), and it was incredibly obvious.
>
> As for the other post, about my never working for a degrading
> boss... If you
> mean, have I ever worked for a boss who rushes to sign me to a $70 million
> guaranteed contract, asks little more from me than to stay in
> shape, excuses
> me without repercussions when I fail to stay in shape, declares
> me the most
> important person in the organization, says I have the talent to
> be the best
> in my profession... and yells when I don't follow his
> instructions... then,
> no, I haven't worked for anyone like that. Sounds like pure hell.
>
> Mark (who will remain skeptical of these players because they embarrassed
> the organization--end of sermon)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Griffin [mailto:mgriffin@rillc.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:47 PM
> To: Berry, Mark S; 'OzerskyJA'; celtics@igtc.com
> Subject: RE: Pitino haters alert
>
>
> I don't think the real answer is somewhere in between.  Let's face it,
> Walker could have followed Pitino's instructions to a tee...and
> Pierce...and
> (you get the point).  He didn't, they didn't.  However, at the end of the
> day (or in this case three years), Pitino refused to a) change
> his defensive
> philosophy and b) change the way he interacts with players.  You
> can not be
> that rigid, particularly as an NBA coach.  It's like Jimmy Johnson has
> stated several times in the NFL, I treat every player the same way,
> "differently".  That means he will treat the stars (Walker)
> differently than
> he would for Carr.  A good example is Dunleavy in Portland.  Players told
> him to be less controlling and they have absolutely responded even with
> Pippen sidelined for most of the year.
>
> You can't compare Nelson to Pitino.  Nelson had a proven NBA track record.
> Pitino doesn't.  Pitino coached one year at New York and did not ressurect
> that team.  He kept it going but it was the same team.
>
> Now is Walker and/or Pierce angels?  No.  But they probably knew by their
> 2nd years with Pitino that his defensive system wasn't ever going to work.
> They aren't putting a better effort defensively now, the system is better.
>
> I don't think it's just O'Brien.  You could've brought in almost
> anyone and
> the situation would have improved because Pitino would not budge from his
> philosophy.  It's not just the trapping, there wasn't as much trapping as
> one would think.  But the defensive philosophy was just over complex and
> O'Brien (with the help of Dr. Ramsey) has greatly simplified the game plan
> on the defensive side of the ball.
>
> Pitino, at some point, should have realized that he needed to adapt and
> change on the defensive side of the ball.  Like someone has
> pointed out, the
> offensive is somewhat the same (Walker and Pierce are averaging more but
> they are just taking points from Stith,Kenny (both who are way down versus
> the first two months)) but the defense has improved by a touchdown (7
> points/game).  That will make a tremendous difference as it has.
> Since the
> defense is better, they aren't as prone to getting blown out.
>
> Anyway, sometimes a change of scenery is the best for all involved and I
> believe that was the case here.  I hold no animosity towards Pitino.  He
> gave it his best, I truly believe that.  However, he did not do the job or
> get his players to produce the results needed to be considered a success.
> However, you have to do it, you do it.  People that keep using Magic and
> Bird as examples, well they are exceptions to the rule.  Phil Jackson,
> considered the best coach in the NBA (duh...look at the talent he
> has had to
> work with)..is letting Kobe get away with doing what he wants.
> Well, Walker
> is playing the way he wants to play too yet he is a great passer for his
> position and people can talk all day about all his assists go to Pierce.
> Who cares?  Assists are assists and numbers don't lie.  If Walker
> can raise
> his fg% to 44-45%, he is a legitimate NBA MVP candidate.  Maybe not this
> year but perhaps he has a chance in the next few years.
>
> So both Pitino and Walker (and any other player) were partially at fault.
> But I truly believe the Celtics would have never won a championship with
> Pitino (he was too impatient as evidenced by some of the trades
> he made) but
> it is possible for them to win a championship with Walker.
>
> All of this of couse, in my humble opinion.  I don't think Pitino
> is much of
> an issue anymore and I look forward to see how they do in the 10 games
> following the all-star break.  If they can go 5-5 I'd be very optimistic
> about the playoffs.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-celtics@igtc.com [mailto:owner-celtics@igtc.com]On Behalf Of
> > Berry, Mark S
> > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:18 AM
> > To: 'OzerskyJA'; Berry, Mark S; 'celtics@igtc.com'
> > Subject: RE: Pitino haters alert
> >
> >
> > Josh, to say Antoine Walker gave Pitino his all for three whole
> seasons is
> > ridiculous. Pitino asked him to bulk up. He didn't. Pitino asked
> > him to slim
> > down. He didn't. Pitino asked him to shoot fewer 3-pointers. He didn't.
> > Pitino asked him to pass more. He didn't. Pitino asked him to defend. He
> > didn't. To say anything else is revisionist history. And
> through all this,
> > Pitino did what? Yell? He didn't bench him, didn't fine him for
> showing up
> > out of shape. That's being too rough on him? That's not soft soap?
> >
> > Yes, there have been plenty of players who have run off
> coaches, but don't
> > lump Magic and Bird in with this bunch of Celtics. Ask either of
> > those guys
> > how many times they gave less than their best effort, even when
> > they clearly
> > disliked their coach. You know the answer to that question. There's a
> > difference between taking a disagreement with a coach to management and
> > laying down on the floor in order to drive the guy away. And
> what exactly
> > had Antoine and Co. accomplished that led them to believe they alone
> > possessed the secret to winning basketball, and Rick Pitino, a
> man who had
> > been to the playoffs as a head coach in the NBA, didn't?
> >
> > Remember when Don Nelson was an idiot and out of touch because he
> > yelled too
> > much for Chris Webber's liking? He wasn't an idiot in
> Milwaukee, when they
> > were in the playoffs. He isn't an idiot in Dallas, where they
> > will be in the
> > playoffs. Seems to me Nelson was a pretty good coach who was
> broadsided by
> > one player (a player who very nearly ended Nelson's career). Now,
> > Webber has
> > gone on to be an MVP candidate, but does that change what he did to Don
> > Nelson, or make it right? No, and if Antoine Walker goes on to be an MVP
> > candidate, it won't change what he did to Rick Pitino. Or make it right.
> >
> > Most everyone on the list is willing to chalk all the problems up
> > to Pitino
> > and celebrate the change since he stopped holding down these
> shoulda-been
> > "All-Stars." That's the easy thing to do, and it helps you feel
> good about
> > rooting for the players on the floor. I'm here to say that these
> > "All-Stars"
> > inexcusably held themselves down, and a month of improved play doesn't
> > change that fact.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OzerskyJA [mailto:OzerskyJA@cmog.org]
> > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 10:53 AM
> > To: 'Berry, Mark S'; OzerskyJA; 'celtics@igtc.com'
> > Subject: RE: Pitino haters alert
> >
> >
> > I just can't summon up any loathing of the players
> > or "today's NBA" because the players quit on Pitino.
> > They gave him their all for three whole seasons, without
> > any success.  Magic Johnson submarined Paul Westhead,
> > and Bird pushed Jimmy Rodgers off the window.  It happens
> > with the best, it happens with the rest.  If Red Auerbach
> > were coaching today, he would be doing that too -- that's
> > just how he handled Russell, in fact.  He used to tell him ahead
> > of time that he was going to yell at him at practice, for appearance'
> > sake.  At this point in Celtics' history, I can't brook any ill-will
> > against the team because they didn't kill themselves for Pitino.
> > The hell with him.  There's something to be said for soft soap,
> > after all.
> >
> > Josh Ozersky
> > Marketing Communications Specialist
> > Corning Museum of Glass
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:	Berry, Mark  S [SMTP:berrym@BATTELLE.ORG]
> > > Sent:	Friday, February 09, 2001 10:17 AM
> > > To:	'OzerskyJA@cmog.org'; 'celtics@igtc.com'
> > > Subject:	Re: Pitino haters alert
> > >
> > > I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Check out this from the
> > > Herald's Gerry Callahan for a different take, and one I tend to agree
> > > with:
> > >
> > > http://www.bostonherald.com/sport/golf_tennis_more/gc02092001.htm
> > >
> > > Look, I like some of the things O'Brien has done: shortening
> > the rotation,
> > > keeping strong defenders around Toine and Pierce, playing
> Blount... but
> > > that's not the reason the team is winning, and it's not
> because O'Brien
> > > isn't yelling or because O'Brien's picture isn't on the front
> > of the media
> > > guide ... the biggest reason for the turnaround is the team,
> > specifically
> > > our two captains, have decided to play hard. They wouldn't do it for
> > > Pitino.
> > > In fact, they quit on him. Some say that's Pitino's fault. I disagree.
> > >
> > > It seems, as Callahan correctly points out, that the only way to coach
> > > Antoine Walker is to not coach him at all. Roll out the ball
> and let him
> > > play... shoot whenever and wherever he wants, and kiss his rear end
> > > whenever
> > > you get the chance. There's no question he's the team leader on
> > the floor,
> > > and the rest of the players, including Pierce, are following his lead.
> > > Let's
> > > just hope O'Brien keeps blowing the smoke, because if Toine
> quits again,
> > > the
> > > rest will follow again.
> > >
> > > The bottom line, of course, is that it doesn't matter. Pitino
> > is gone and
> > > the players who drove him out of town are still here. The NBA
> > is all about
> > > the players, and it's true that Pitino didn't see that soon enough. He
> > > made
> > > the mistake of trying to coach them. Go figure.
> >
>