RE: Trying to make up my mind...

["Shawn Niles" <shizzjr@hotmail.com>]

I agree that there are still many problems but many of those problems were 
caused by the approach that you are advocating. A team usually gets itself 
in trouble when they think about how to get better real quick or how to make 
the playoffs in the very next year but not thinking beyond. The Celts tried 
that approach in recent years(Xavier McDaniel, Dominique Wilkins). Pitino's 
approach didn't work either. So I agree with trying something new. I would 
be very nervous if they tried to make a bunch of moves right now just to 
assure that they make the playoffs THIS year. I am more concerned with the 
years down the road. And Obie and Wallace are setting themselves up for 
those years, not just for next year. It is a very smart approach.


>From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@BATTELLE.ORG>
>To: 'Shawn Niles' <shizzjr@hotmail.com>, "Berry, Mark  S" 
><berrym@BATTELLE.ORG>, jam@london.com, celtics@igtc.com
>Subject: RE: Trying to make up my mind...
>Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:56:46 -0400
>
>You say negative, Shawn; I say honest. I see the good things-the talented
>rookies, Pierce and Walker. I also see no real center, no real power
>forward, no point guard, too many unmovable salaries, and a conference
>that's getting deeper all the time. I hope the lousy front line and point
>guard committee are overcome by talent and depth at the swing positions, 
>but
>they'll have to show me. I hope Jim O'Brien is the exception to the
>midseason coaching change trend toward immediate success, followed by a
>slide, but I'm not sure he is. I hope the Celtics make the playoffs this
>year while counting their pennies and twiddling their thumbs until Kenny
>Anderson comes off the books, but I don't know if it can happen with this
>roster. I hope, when Kenny and the other bad contracts expire, the Celtics
>actually buck the trend and do something with whatever salary cap room they
>have, but salary cap room isn't what it used to be. You say I'm negative,
>but I say you're blinded by your loyalty if you believe there still aren't
>some serious problems with this team.
>
>Mark
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>From: 	Shawn Niles [mailto:shizzjr@hotmail.com]
>Sent:	Tuesday, August 07, 2001 4:28 PM
>To:	berrym@BATTELLE.ORG; jam@london.com; celtics@igtc.com
>Subject:	Re: Trying to make up my mind...
>
>I do not believe that I have ever heard anyone with a more negative view
>than you, Mark. It is clear to me that the team has made significant moves
>to improve the team. They are clearly looking 2 years down the road to be
>among the top teams. I would rather wait the 2 years and see them on top
>than see them make moves now to be a 5 or 6 seed for the next 5 years.
>
>The team only quit on Pitino because they saw what everyone else saw: they
>were never going to win with him as the coach. That was made clear by the
>way they played after he was gone. They went .500 against the toughest part
>of their schedule. It has been stated here before that if they played under
>Pitino the way they played under O'Brien, they would have made the 
>playoffs.
>
>The Moiso trade was much more than a deal to get some cash. The ygot rid of
>a guy that scored around 35 points all of last year. An entire year with
>only 35 points!! That is pitiful. Maybe the worst part was that he looked
>worse in this years summer league than last years. I don't think he would
>have scored 20 points this year if they had kept him. Instead, they got a
>player that if healthy, could be a 8th or 9th man off the bench and give 
>you
>
>5-7 points a game. Still not that good, but much more than Moiso would hae
>given you. Then they also got a 1st rounder. This will probably be used as 
>a
>
>bargaining chip in a future trade. They have until 2007 to use the pick. 
>And
>
>if they decide to keep the pick, it could turn out to be in the 13-16 
>range,
>
>where some good players have been had. You don't think this pick will come
>in handy?
>
>You seem to look at everything and try to figure out how to put a negative
>spin on it. I think we have had enough of that in the Pitino years, and it
>is very sad if you cannot see or refuse to see that this team has
>dramatically improved and has positioned itself to be great in years to
>come.
>
>
> >From: "Berry, Mark  S" <berrym@BATTELLE.ORG>
> >To: "'jam@london.com'" <jam@london.com>,   "'celtics@igtc.com'"
> ><celtics@igtc.com>
> >Subject: Re: Trying to make up my mind...
> >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:26:08 -0400
> >
> >Jim wrote:
> >Really?  If that's the case, you might as well unplug the phone, because
> >without trading one of these guys nothing significant is going to happen.
> >I
> >wouldn't call *anyone* on the team untouchable, although I suspect the
> >Celtics would say Pierce is, and considering his extension must make him 
>a
> >BYC player, I'll give you that one.  Other than that, what player you
> >listed
> >wouldn't you include in a deal to get a quality big man?  If the answer 
>is
> >"none", then they're not untouchable.
> >----end----
> >
> >I completely agree, and anyone who has read any of my posts over the 
>years
> >knows I don't consider anyone untouchable. My point was that Wallace 
>seems
> >to treat them as untouchable. They're not going anywhere this year. It's
> >that simple. I mentioned the players on the roster who aren't going to be
> >traded and the ones who basically can't be traded (unless at a loss). I
> >didn't mention them by name, but, by omission, I was indicating that 
>Vitaly
> >and Battie have some trade value.
> >
> >Jim wrote:
> >All in all, the team has a lot of options on the trade market if they
> >decide
> >to go that route.  I don't think they intend to, though.  But that's out 
>of
> >choice, not because they have no assets.
> >----end----
> >
> >That's been my point all along on the Moiso deal. They've chosen not to
> >make
> >any trades, but when they finally deal Moiso it doesn't improve the
> >team-only the bottom line. You say financially driven deals happen all 
>the
> >time in sports---and that makes it OK? It's one thing when a deal is to 
>get
> >under a salary cap, under the luxury tax threshold or clear room for
> >another
> >acquisition, but when the move just saves money, I have a real problem 
>with
> >it.
> >
> >Finally, let me say this about the Celtics... I'm hard on them. I haven't
> >always been. I used to be a hopeless optimist. I spun the Kenny Anderson
> >trade so I liked it. I spun the Vitaly trade so I liked it. Same with the
> >Mercer and Fortson trades and the Moiso pick. Going into last season, I 
>was
> >convinced things were going to turn around. Then the players
> >quit-absolutely
> >quit-on Pitino, and my view of the team changed completely.
> >
> >I hold Pitino completely accountable for the personnel moves he made and
> >some coaching problems, but the guy had a proven track record both in
> >college and, although some people love to forget it, with the Knicks in 
>the
> >NBA. There's no excusing the personnel mistakes, but there's also no
> >denying
> >he faced some challenges in coaching this team that go beyond the bad
> >trades. He wanted his best player to bulk up to play power forward, and 
>the
> >player resisted. Pitino adjusted and asked him to get in shape to play
> >small
> >forward, and the player ignored the request. And when things got tough, 
>his
> >best players-who never have won as many games as they've lost and never
> >sniffed the playoffs-tuned out and quit on the coach. Do I blame Pitino 
>for
> >a lot of the team's problems? Yes. Do I blame him for all of the 
>problems?
> >No way. And I'm not willing to say "Pitino's gone, so everything will be
> >fine."
> >
> >So I'm tough on them. They have a general manager who certainly seems to
> >know how to identify talent, but never has been asked to build a
> >team-there's a difference. They have a coach who completely destroyed a
> >Division I college program and has never had any sustained success when 
>not
> >under Pitino's wing. They have a power forward who after five years in 
>the
> >league shoots 41 percent, leads the league in 3-point attempts despite
> >being
> >nowhere in the top 50 in percentage, never gets to the free throw line 
>and
> >is a terrible defender. They have a starting point guard who averaged 6
> >points and 2.6 assists last year. They have a starting center who 
>averaged
> >3.9 points and 3.6 rebounds last year, another center who averaged 7 
>points
> >and 6 rebounds but can't defend and fouls too much, and a third center 
>who
> >missed half a season with an ankle sprain. They have three rookies who 
>play
> >the same position as their best player. They have two veteran point 
>guards
> >who can't stay healthy and aren't very good when they do. And several 
>teams
> >in the conference have gotten better.
> >
> >Now, they also have a coach who finished at .500 in his tenure last year,
> >one of the league's most efficient and prolific scorers, a power forward
> >who
> >is versatile enough to actually play some point guard, three talented
> >rookies and the potential for a bright future.
> >
> >I can see both sides of it, but I refuse to be blind to the negative 
>about
> >this team anymore. I used to be, but reality hit hard in a tank job at 
>home
> >against the Sixers last year. If I seem them making moves to save money,
> >I'll complain. If I see them standing pat when others are making moves to
> >try to ensure a playoff spot, I'll complain. If I see them ignoring
> >weaknesses in these players and this team, I'll complain. I know a lot of
> >you probably get tired of hearing it, but I've taken my green-tinted
> >glasses
> >off. I root for them as hard as anyone, but I'll be as critical as anyone
> >when I believe it's warranted.
> >
> >Mark
>
>
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