Re: Holley on who may be going. . .

["Thomas Murphy" <tfmiii@worldnet.att.net>]

Thanks for the comments Josh! Its good to be back in the thick of things.

Regardless of what you think of Holley (although I do think you are
needlessly negative on that score) trade winds are swirling about the
Celts, in large part due to statements made by Pitino in the past and in
particular his playoff pledge. Now, I was up front and stated that if I
were to trade an asset I'd look to trade Walker. We all know that isn't
going to happen. I've grown accustomed to the fact over the years that the
Celts rarely do what I would ideally like them to do. So the question in my
mind becomes "what WILL the Celts do?"

I can appreciate your feeling regarding Battie and agree that his
shot-blocking is a sorely needed commodity on this team. I look at Battie
and see a potentially solid complementary player, a Theo Ratliff-type. I
would have had Battie in the starting line-up long ago myself but under
Pitino it hasn't happened. It doesn't seem the Pitino is as thrilled with
his game as we are - for whatever reason - and given that both his contract
and Mercer's are up for extension at the same time it is unfortunate but
they seem to be pitted against one another in Pitino's mind (or Gaston's
checkbook). In such a contest my money's on Pitino retaining the UK alum
(oops, almost wrote "grad") every time.

Would Jerome Williams be an improvement over Battie? JW is not as tall,
doesn't block shots but he is constantly active, hard-nosed and seems to
have his ego relatively in check - an Andrew DeClercq with more skills. And
speaking of checks, JW could probably be retained for quite a bit less than
Battie. Would Detroit part with him? I'm sure that they would rather not,
but like the Celtics, they have to part with something if they want to
build around their current core (Hill, Stackhouse, Laettner) and have a
shot at persuading Hill to re-up in a few years. JW represents one of their
few desirable commodities and as such would be the key to any trade that I
imagine the Celts may entertain.

As for Bison Dele, well, I like him as a person. . . But seriously, let's
examine his strengths/weaknesses to see why Boston might bite at such an
offer without descending into pure negativity (isn't this all you ask for
in Pitino's case?). The guy is a "free spirit" - no question there. But he
would also be a major improvement over Eric Riley/Dwayne Schintzius/Pervis
Ellison. Unfortunately Potapenko does pick up his share of cheap fouls.
Also Dele wouldn't need to be the "the man" and in fact his career would
seem to indicate that he plays better when he is not expected to be "the
man". Detroit (read Doug Collins) screwed up "big time" when they tried to
make Dele something he isn't - a dominating starting center - and measured
against such expectations Dele was bound to fail, as he has. But as a
hustling scrub filling in off the bench Dele could provide some important
minutes and - unlike Coleman - Bison wouldn't sulk about it. Now you ask,
isn't nearly 5mil a lot of cash for a back-up C/PF? Objectively, the answer
is yes - but we need to remember, its not much more than what we're already
paying our back-up PG! In essence we'd be talking about a swap of one
overpaid sub (more easily replaced --> Damon Jones) for another (less
easily replaced --> Eric Riley?) as part of the price of prying Jerome
Williams from the Pistons.

Now, I hope you don't mistake all the above as indicative that I'm
president of the "Bison Dele fan club" - I'm not. But compared to Vin
Baker, which as you know is a name that has been floated as a possibility
by some well-meaning fans, give me the Bison. For all his deficiencies,
Bison doesn't whine about shots or playing time and he comes at half the
price. Baker has the ego and the contract that comes with being named an
all-star and he hasn't been shy about looking out for "number one" as
Seattle's season sank into Puget sound - in good part due to his lack of
productivity. Bison's not tough but from what I know of him he is a team
player and given the proper role can be a valued contributor. 

Now, let's look at the deal as a whole and ask why Pitino might be
interested in it. Beyond the fact that such a trade tallies with the
indications we can derive from what Holley and Pitino have told us, such a
trade would improve our energy, rebounding, toughness (at least in JW's
case) and depth at PF and C. This would enable Pitino to shift Walker to
the 3-spot for significant minutes a game which should benefit both Walker
and the team as a whole. And it would accomplish all this without
sacrificing one of the four core players Pitino started the season with:
Anderson, Walker, Pierce or Mercer. From Pitino's perspective he
strengthens his team's most glaring weakness at the cost of two
benchwarmers - not bad!

Why would Detroit sign on? As I mentioned before, they need a PG in the
worst way and Coach Gentry has indicated that he feels Barros merits
consideration as PG. Also, they get to subtract Dele and his contract from
a situation where too much water has already flowed over the dam. They
sacrifice in losing Jerome Williams but do get Battie (and all those
qualities you mentioned) in return to man the 4-spot. In sum: they gain a
starting PG who can relieve Grant Hill of a good deal of his ball handling
responsibilities, thereby benefiting both Hill's game and the team as a
whole, and add a shot-blocking four in exchange for an underachieving
center with a hard-to-move contract and the sacrifice of a valuable but not
core member of the team.

On another topic: you had to love the Kings stomping on the Jazz at home!
Go Kings!!

A final note regarding engaging in "groupthink" in referring to Pitinocchio
by "snide names". Lighten up! This is sports we're talking about, isn't it?
If you can't have fun with this, then what can you have fun with? After
all, we don't work for the man - thank God!! Also, it is hardly
"groupthink" if the list is split (which it seems to be) fairly evenly
regarding their assessment of El Presidente. It seems a fairly harmless way
to vent honest frustration with the most repellant aspect of Pitino's
personality as it comes across through his actions and statements: his
desire to manipulate other people and their perceptions of him. Like Joe, I
consider myself a bit of a Pitino-knocker, but not for what he has done as
much as how he does it. The incessant yelling during games, the spinning to
the press, the constant revisions of past history, the denial and/or
inability to own up to certain of his own shortcomings (I haven't forgotten
what he did to young PP!) all are indicative of his belief that he can
manipulate anyone and everyone. I wish the man all the luck in the world
(since his success should be our success) but that doesn't mean I have to
revere each of his personality quirks. And I don't buy the line that his
incessant attempts at manipulation are a necessary key to success. He could
be just as successful (and a much classier) GM if he told the press what
some other list members have suggested: that contract negotiations take
place behind closed doors - just like his locker-room rants.

Best wishes

Tom Murphy
----------
> From: Josh Ozersky <josh_ozersky@yahoo.com>
> To: Thomas Murphy <tfmiii@worldnet.att.net>; Celtic list
<celtics@igtc.com>
> Subject: RE: Holley on who may be going. . . 
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 8:48 AM
> 
> Holley knows little more than we do, it seems to me,
> and his conjectures were only slightly more
> responsible than some on the this list.  I don't think
> Detroit would ever part with Jerome Williams, though
> if they did there were few people who would relish a
> trade for him more than I.  But I wouldn't give up
> Tony Battie.  I really think Battie is a key to the
> celtics future, much more so than Ron Mercer, who for
> all his grace and athleticism is a limited player who
> needs to be a major offensive option to be effective. 
> Fast shotblockers with soft jumpers don't grow on
> trees however, and if you can get one locked up at a
> reasonable salary you have a major insurance policy in
> case of missed steals, blown assignments, etc.  As for
> the Bison Dele trade, the less said about it the
> better.  The guy is despised by his teammates in
> detroit -- a soft, undependable headcase with Derrick
> Coleman's attitude and Dino Radja's talent.   Pee Yuu.
>  Has anybody been watching the Portland/Pheonix
> series?  Really entertaining!  Both those teams really
> can pass the hell out of the ball -- the Celts should
> be forced to watch them.
> 
> Here's hoping somebody crushes the Jazz.
> 
> Josh Ozersky
> 
> P.S. Tom, I wish you wouldn't do this groupthink thing
> of calling Pitino by snide names -- the guy is
> certainly the most candid executive in the NBA, and an
> interview with him is infinitely more revealing than
> almost any GM.  If he has to dissemble for trade
> purposes occasionally, so what?  And you know what --
> Andrew DeClerq IS a jump shot away from being an
> outstanding player -- see Doleac, Michael.
>